QtD 0.1 is out!

[Chris R Miller]

Nick Sabalausky wrote:
> "Daniel Keep"<daniel.keep.lists at gmail.com>  wrote in message
> news:gmfujj$2t5$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>
>> Ary Borenszweig wrote:
>>> Daniel Keep escribió:
>>>> "No files in this directory."
>>>>
>>>> Well that sucks.  Oh well, I... hey, wait a second...
>>>>
>>>> *unblocks javascript*
>>>>
>>>> "No files in this directory, but there ARE subdirectories!"
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes, I really wish there was a way to electrocute people for
>>>> making their sites break without Javascript...
>>> What? Why?
>>>
>>> A web like that without Javascript is awfuly slow and ugly...
>> So... not having a scripting language would make pages run slower.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I *really* hope you're joking.
>>
>> As for the "ugly" argument, that's bunk as well.  The only two things
>> you can't do without Javascript is to perform dynamic positioning and
>> visibility.  But you don't NEED those to make aesthetically pleasing
>> pages.  Just go look at CSS Zen Garden.
>>
>> *deep breath*
>>
>> <tirade>
>>
>> I have no problem with having scripting available for pages in general.
>> But what DOES make me spew LIQUID HATE from every bodily orifice [1] is
>> when they use Javascript to REPLACE FUNCTIONALITY THAT HTML ALREADY HAS.
>>
>> Like the sites where instead of using hyperlinks, they use Javascript in
>> onclick events.  Gee thanks, a**hole, you just broke tabs.  Thanks for
>> dictating how I'm allowed to view your site!
>>
>> Or the sites where they "inject" the content of the page like this:
>>
>>> <script>document.write("THE PAGE CONTENT");</script>
>> Or pages where they have forms that go over perfectly ordinary HTTP POST
>> and use perfectly ordinary form elements... but the submit button
>> doesn't work BECAUSE IT REQUIRES F**KING SCRIPTING.
>>
>> This sort of bulls**t is inexcusable.  It's like breaking someone's legs
>> and saying "but now you can use crutches; isn't that great?!"
>>
>> No, you broke my legs you bastard!
>>
>> What's more, thanks to the plague of popup ads, ads that hang your
>> browser for 5 seconds every time you mouse over the word "synergy" in an
>> article, ads that show up in the same window but OVER the content, ads
>> that play music or stream video when I'm on a QUOTA-LIMITED 'net
>> connection, ads that start TALKING to you if your mouse goes anywhere
>> near them or sites that just generally abuse the hell out of scripting,
>> I'm amazed ANYONE browses the web with Javascript enabled by default.
>> Frankly, if you build a site that utterly depends on Javascript to
>> function [2], then you're an _idiot_.
>>
>> You want to use JS to make the site more usable?  That's great!  But you
>> DO NOT break basic functionality to do it.  EVER.  If you can't figure
>> out how, you're not qualified to be writing JS for web pages [3].
>>
>> As someone who used to do web development: anyone, **ANYONE** who does
>> this should be taken out back, shot, hung, drawn&  quartered then buried
>> upside-down at a crossroads under a crucifix with a steak through the
>> heart and a silver bullet in the head.  Then burn and salt the earth
>> just to make sure.
>>
>> </tirade>
>>
>> Sorry about that, but MAN do I feel better.
>>
>> -- Daniel
>>
>> [1] ... to borrow a phrase from Ben Croshaw.
>>
>> [2] Obviously, this doesn't apply for sites that GENUINELY cannot
>> function without Javascript.  Stuff like Google Docs or a Javascript
>> image editor; that stuff is fine because HTML can't do that.
>
> This is by far the best description/explanation of the evils of Javascript I
> have ever seen. It might sound a little extreme to some people, but speaking
> as another person who has done plenty of web development, there is
> absolutely no way to cover this topic *properly* without putting it in such
> terms. If the above rant is overly-*anything*, it's overly conciliatory.
> There's just no excuse for so many of the things that most web developers
> do.
>
> Now if we can only nudge Daniel to give the same treatment to Firefox 3...
> ;)
>
> BTW, Daniel, if you're on Firefox, you need to install the Adblock Plus
> addon and set it up with some of the subscriptions here:
> http://adblockplus.org/en/subscriptions  I'm not exaggerating when I say
> that for a few months before I found that addon, using the web was so bad I
> was *very* close to abandoning use of the web entirely. (I have some other
> addon recommendations too, if you're interested.) In fact, that addon is the
> main reason I use Firefox as my primary browser even though I generally
> dislike Firefox. This addon still doesn't solve all of the problems with JS,
> but it at least changes to web from "completely unusable garbage" (and
> that's no exaggeration) to merely "frequently irritating".

You must frequent some fantastically horrible websites.  I use the 'net 
quite frequently, and I don't experience anywhere near enough 
consternation to even consider finding a popup blocker.