Visual D 1.0.0 released

Manu turkeyman at
Thu Jul 9 10:22:50 UTC 2020

FWIW, I actually agree with everything you said about linux as a dev
environment vs windows. But that wasn't the question... as an IDE and
debugger integration, there is absolutely no comparison to VisualD, not by

It would be really cool if parts from VisualD were more suitable for
VSCode, but I can't see that being easy or practical.
One is the Concorde integration, which is pretty deep, and GDB is just not
even remotely as good, and the vscode debug UX is embarrassing by contrast.
Then the general autocomplete engine, which is fairly dependent on the
detail expressed in the project files. While vcxproj files are very shit to
write, it's much easier on the tooling than trying to extract sufficient
build config from make.
Nobody writes VS project files, you generate them, just the same as
makefiles... nobody writes makefiles.

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 6:45 PM Petar via Digitalmars-d-announce <
digitalmars-d-announce at> wrote:

> On Thursday, 9 July 2020 at 00:03:02 UTC, Manu wrote:
> >
> > Not really. VisualD is objectively the most functional and
> > competent
> > IDE/Debugger solution, BY FAR.
> > It's not an opinion, it's a measurable fact.
> >
> > Obviously, if you are into vim/emacs/whatever, then you don't
> > actually
> > really care much about IDE support and debugging, and in that
> > case, this
> > question is not relevant to you.
> > I agree that Code-D + VSCode is probably the second best
> > solution, but
> > there's really no comparison; the debugger is a kind of
> > funny/sad joke, the
> > D debug experience is poorly integrated, and the
> > intellisense/autocomplete
> > is nowhere near the same standard. There's no competition.
> >
> > Code-D is great work, but it's still catching up, and it may
> > never do so because VSCode just has an embarrassingly bad
> > debugger :(
> Professionally, I've used Visual Studio for the first 3-4 years
> of my career. Back then the company I worked for was a MSFT
> partner, so we all had the Professional or Ultimate edition that
> had all the bells and whistles. I agree that VS has probably the
> best debugger, though I'd actually say that the debugging
> experience is much better with C# than C++. Debugging C++ (with
> /Od and with or without /Zo) feels wanky compared C# which has
> always been rock-solid.
> However, I've since moved to Linux and I couldn't be happier. I
> haven't had to fire up Windows for the past 1-2 years. On my work
> machine, I neither have a dual boot, nor even a Windows VM, just
> Linux. Windows really sucks as a dev environment. And I'm telling
> this as someone who would for years be one of the first among my
> colleagues and friends to install the latest Windows, VS, MSVC,
> .NET FX /.NET Core preview builds, Chocolatey, vcpkg, WSL,
> Windows Terminal, Cygwin, Msys, Msys2 and so on.
> The only salvation I see is WSL2, but still, it's overall a
> pretty bad dev UX. No matter how much effort is put in a GUI IDE,
> nothing beets Unix as an IDE and especially modern distros, such
> as NixOS (my daily driver). Yes, it takes much more effort for
> beginners than VS, but it's all worth it.
> Coming back to VS Code, for what I do on my daily job it's really
> destroying the "real" VS:
> * It's cross-platform, so I can take my dev environment on
> whichever OS I work.
> * You don't need to create a "project file" to effectively work
> on a project
> * On Windows, admin user is not necessary to install & update.
> This makes the update process unnoticeable, where VS, before
> their new modular installer was unbearably slow (1h min).
> * Start time is much better. Additionally, in many cases, you
> don't need to restart when you install/uninstall an extension -
> this make's it much easier to test extensions for 1-2 mins and
> then throw them away.
> * The extensions integrate much better - in many cases it takes <
> 10 secs to install something, while with VS it takes at least
> 1min in my experience, sometimes even several minutes, depending
> on the size of the extension.
> * VS Code integrates much better with the system - on Windows you
> just right-click to open a folder or file and it's opened in less
> then 1-3secs. In the terminal you just type `code <path>` and
> it's done. I know this works already with full VS and I have used
> it, but its much slower startup time defeats this workflow.
> * For beginners (which don't know vim), VS Code is actually not a
> bad choice as the default git editor (it's just `git config
> --global core.editor "code --wait"`) (e.g. for interactive
> rebase, writing commit messages, git add -p edit, and so on)
> * Given that I spend at least at 30-70% of my time in the
> terminal, VS Code's integrated terminal is much better than
> whatever VS has had when I tried it over the years. I'd like the
> perf to be better with vim and git diff, but it's very workable.
> * vscodevim still has much to be desired, but it's miles ahead
> then the alternative extensions for the full VS
> * The editor as a whole is much *easier* to customize and I feel
> that in the past 1-2 years it has started to be *more*
> customizable compared to VS
> * Extensions like Remote development for containers and SSH are
> live savers. I couldn't live without them (if I have to use a GUI
> editor / IDE).
> * The overall language support is much better. VS does a couple
> of languages really well, but VSCode has a much richer extensions
> gallery and supports many more languages.
> * Of course, I'm biased, since I haven't had to use a debugger in
> the past several months, but these days I'd always pick an editor
> with a much better extensibility story because many of the things
> I need daily I haven't found alternatives for in VS.
> ----
> Rainer, the work you have done with VisualD is astounding! I have
> always been extremely impressed by the progress you have been
> making over the years!
> (Of course, not a high priority by any means, but) it would be
> great to have VisualD's engine for VS Code! I know that a large
> part of VisualD is very tightly coupled with VS, but I think that
> anything that could be made a bit more independent and reusable
> would be a plus.
> What I really wish is we had a single shared codebase for dlang
> editor support, that could be shared among editor extension
> writers, instead of having many community members working on
> competing solutions.
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