***** D method override mechanisms borked ******

[kris]

Carlos Santander wrote:
> John Reimer escribió:
>> Kris actually voiced some of the feelings I've been experiencing about 
>> Bruno's posts.  It's hard to articulate that kind of "feeling." But 
>> for the most part, I feel he's accurate in his complaint (although he 
>> sounds a little exasperated).
>>
>> Bruno does come across extremely confident, and while "ego" is a 
>> strong word,  Bruno has given us very little indication that his posts 
>> are an expression of anything other than that.  So that leaves us 
>> thinking one of two things: either he really knows what he's talking 
>> about and likes bombarding the community with statements of absolute 
>> truth, despite the fact that nobody really knows why he thinks he 
>> knows (like maybe many long years of research, experience, and study?) 
>> ; or he's a 21 year old college kid who is quite bright, but has a 
>> penchant for talking about what's right and wrong about everything as 
>> if his is the final word on the matter.
>>
>> Either way, there's no common courtesy or deference to the experience 
>> of  others, many of whom may have a whole lot more years behind them 
>> in the computer industry. There's no gentle discussion. There's just 
>> strident confidence about how things are with little justification for 
>> it or evidence as to why. This world is full of gray areas and full of 
>> systems that try to make an organized approach to understanding and 
>> working in them, but that doesn't make any one system perfect.  As 
>> time goes on, we find that out.
>>
>> Regan, It's less about his being a student, which as you say really 
>> makes no difference, and more about how he voices his opinions with 
>> very little reason for us to know why his word should be law on 
>> matters.  The student thing comes up because that's about the only 
>> portrait Bruno has bothered to paint for us (his signature).  And I'm 
>> afraid that portrait is rather lacking in any substance.
>>
>> Regan, you've been in the same spot as Bruno, I think, and perhaps 
>> empathize with him a little, especially in relation to dealing with 
>> Kris :).  But you've doggedly persisted through, developed D code, 
>> contributed to the community in significant ways and thus earned that 
>> amount of respect you now deserve.  But there were times when people 
>> were annoyed with your innate ability to start long-winded debates on 
>> things. Some of your opinions came across the same way.
>>
>> When youth speak with so such confidence, it tends to come across as 
>> abrasive, annoying, and egotistical, no matter what the original 
>> intention may be.
>>
>> I'm giving Bruno the benefit of the doubt.  He probably just enjoys D, 
>> this community, and the language related discussions so much, that he 
>> has trouble holding back.  That's nice... but there are consequences 
>> to any action lacking self-control. :)
>>
>> -JJR
> 
> 
> I think Kris overreacted. Maybe he was right, but I don't think that was 
> the right way to express it. Experience is a very valuable thing, 
> granted, but maybe Bruno has experience and he just hasn't made it 
> public. But whether that's the case or not, I agree with Regan in that 
> it shouldn't matter that much. 


You're right, Carlos; it does not matter that much. My point was simply 
that Bruno's long-standing behaviour of "correcting" every little 
detail, and his particular approach to doing so, is often out of step 
with his reality. That does *not* mean the information he passes along 
is wrong; nor does it mean it is right. Most things in the world can be 
considered right or wrong, given different circumstances.

You can visit Bruno's website where he talks about himself: the url is 
attached to each of his posts. You'll discover one 22 year old CS student.

My prior comment was not to suggest students are somehow unknowlegable 
-- not in the least -- those lucky people tend to have a lot of time to 
peruse the literature and learn. At least, it was the task given to me 
at that time. And who knows; maybe Bruno is a true genius. Instead, as 
has been pointed out, these persistent "corrections" are often couched 
in less than favourable terms.

To put this into perspective: let's suppose for a moment that you, 
Carlos, had spent significant effort designing and writing for the 
benefit of the community. Let's also suppose that the language spec 
silently changed and "broke" your designs somewhat. Finally, let's 
suppose you post a report about those things which are broken, and then 
this guy Kris comes along and says something like the following:

"Pah! How stupid to follow the spec, or even the long-term language 
behaviour when, as I will tell you, *I* know how it should have been 
done in the first place. You see, you can thank only yourself for your 
broken design"

Well, gee - what a complete arsehole. Doesn't matter whether I'm an 
arrogant student, an arrogant professor, or an arrogant policeman. Thus, 
the student comment should be taken within context. Certainly was not 
meant as an offence to students.

Of course, there will probably be those who suspect I am just sensitive 
to any kind of criticism. All I can say is, if that were an issue, I 
would hardly be publishing code. It's a bit of a shame more people don't 
do that.

What get's my goat is this ~ and it's something to think about ~ there's 
a world of difference between genuinely trying to impart knowledge, and 
simply wielding it like a hefty club