ESR on post-C landscape

[Ola Fosheim Grostad]

On Tuesday, 14 November 2017 at 11:55:17 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> The reason he can dismiss D, so easily, is because of his 
> starting premise that C is flawed. As soon as you begin with 
> that premise, you justify searching for C's replacement, which 
> makes it difficult to envsion something like D.

Well, in another thread he talked about the Tango split, so not 
sure where he is coming from.

> That's why we got C++, instead of D. Because the starting point 
> for C++, was the idea that C was flawed.

No, the starting point for C++ was that Simula is better for a 
specific kind of modelling than C.

> C is not flawed. It doesn't need a new language to replace it.

It is flawed... ESR got that right, not sure how anyone can 
disagree. The only thing C has going for it is that CPU designs 
have been adapted to C for decades. But that is changing. C no 
longer models the hardware in a reasonable manner.

> If that was the starting point for Go and Rust, then it is ill 
> conceived.

It wasn't really. The startingpoint for Go was just as much a 
language used to implement Plan 9. Don't know about Rust, but it 
looks like a ML spinoff.

> One should also not make the same error, by starting with the 
> premise that we need a simpler language to replace the 
> complexity of the C++ language.

Why not? Much of the evolved complexity of C++ can be removed by 
streamlining.

> If that was the starting point for Go and Rust, then it is ill 
> conceived.

It was the starting point for D...

> What we need, is a language that provides you with the 
> flexibility to model your solution to a problem, *as you see 
> fit*.
>
> If that were my starting point, then it's unlikely I'd end up 
> designing Go or Rust. Only something like D can result from 
> that starting point.

Or C++, or ML, or BETA, or Scala, or etc etc...

> Because then, it's unlikely he would get away with being so 
> dismissive of D.

If he is dismissive of C++ and Rust then he most likely will 
remain dismissive od D as well?