D Change Proposals

[Bruno Medeiros]

John Reimer wrote:
> 
> "Bruno Medeiros" <brunodomedeirosATgmail at SPAM.com> wrote in message 
> news:e9bd62$1jae$1 at digitaldaemon.com...
>> Ok, I was thinking of how to improve the way the community manages D 
>> language feature requests, change proposals, etc., and I have come 
>> forth with a idea I've mentioned before of using the Wiki to keep 
>> track of language proposals (called D Change Proposals?).
>>
>> The point of having a wiki entry is to either help create a final 
>> proposal (by detailing the different alternatives, etc.) or to simply 
>> keep track of the status quo of the proposal (what are the issues, the 
>> possible solutions, what does the community think, what does Walter 
>> think, etc.)
>>
>> I have created a wiki template:
>> http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DCP_Template
>> which offers a template for a Change Proposal document, and some 
>> guidelines for the respective proposal process. Do give your comments, 
>> thoughts, etc.
>> Note that the template is mostly a collection of suggestions that I 
>> wanted to present (and open to collaborative editing). It is not about 
>> strict adherence, one can use parts of it, variations, etc., In fact 
>> as you can see, the template is not complete/finished, nor has to be. 
>> The parts with "?" are more particularly open for comments.
>>
>> Here is an example DCP:
>> http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?DCP_DefaultPrivateImports
>>
>> -- 
>> Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student
>> http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D
> 
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Excuse me for being so pessimistic, Bruno. But this has all been 
> suggested before, over and over and over again over the past few years.  
> What are you trying to accomplish?  Every six months or so another 
> exuberant personality, not unlike yourself,  pops up in this newsgroup 
> with a "hey, I've got a incredible idea!" and tries to guide the 
> community into a new rash of "exceptional" suggestions for organizing 
> proposals and managing a very inscrutable and unmanageable Walter.
> 
> It doesn't work, hasn't worked, and won't work -- believe me.  Has 
> Walter backed you on this?  Do you think Walter will take out of his day 
> to look at this list (not the first list by far, either)?  Are you 
> serious? If not, what in the world are trying to do? If it makes you 
> feel good, please realize that's all it's doing. Because it's likely to 
> do absolutely nothing for anyone here or the promotion or improvement of D.
> 

"Managing Walter"? You incorrectly assumed these proposals where be made 
so that Walter would decide upon them, or even look at them. I'm fully 
aware that it most certainly will have little to zero impact on Walter. 
It was my mistake to not explicit mention that in my DCP post, but I had 
stated that before in other thread. Quote:
"[...] the wiki could be used as a repository for summaries of the 
current "discussion state" of design features/peeves/issues. [...]. Even 
if Walter doesn't pay attention to it (which is expected) it helps a bit 
to the community to know what is the current status, and the opinion of 
the rest of the community members."
from news://news.digitalmars.com:119/e3ae4v$2o1t$1@digitaldaemon.com .

> You are better off getting control of yourself, sitting down and putting 
> all that restless energy to use documenting or programming D libraries. 
> That would be much more effective in getting D going than what you are 
> suggesting.  Leave the proposal suggestions for those that have even a 
> smidgeon of a chance of getting Walter's attention.
> 
> Why am I being so harsh?  Mostly because you are becoming ruthlessly 
> persistent in conveying your "wisdom" without making consideration for 
> the current circumstance or your own standing here in the community; you 
> still haven't proved your worth with real live D contributions beyond 
> your prodigious number of postings.
> 
> I encourage you to start playing with D, write tutorials, convert 
> libraries, exercise D for all it's worth.  Establish yourself as a D 
> contributor! If you want to be a leader in the D community, prove 
> yourself by setting a reliable and observable example of dedication 
> (beyond mere postings to this newsgroup)!  Then come back and tell 
> Walter and the community what needs to be done.
> 
> If you really want to see D progress, you'll have to move as much useful 
> code to it as possible, and demonstrate to the outside programming 
> community why D is so great.  That's where you will have much more 
> influence. Because you just haven't developed that sort of influence in 
> here yet.
> 

Again the notion that one's opinion is only valid according to the 
proportion of his contribution to D... This is just so downright silly, 
that I'm not sure I want to try to convince otherwise.
Suffice to say, if that was the case, then the opinions from the guys 
from the usenet C++ newsgroup would be worthless, as they contributed 
nothing to D. (Yet those guys, those wise guys, are the ones Walter pays 
most attention to.)

> Remember, Bruno, you are young, and your ideas are not new.  If this 
> offends you, I'm sorry.  You are just much to vocal for your own good; 
> and I think you need to be yanked down now again before you get yourself 
> in over your head. It gets wearisome to see this happen over and over 
> again.
> 
> -JJR


-- 
Bruno Medeiros - CS/E student
http://www.prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?BrunoMedeiros#D