Real World usage of D, Today (was Re: challenge #2: implement the varargs_reduce metafunction)

[Andrei Alexandrescu (See Website For Email)]

kris wrote:
> Andrei Alexandrescu (See Website For Email) wrote:
> [snip]
> 
>> It's really easy. I can't right now disclose all of my agenda for 
>> objective reasons (I will do it later), but the gist of the matter is 
>> simple:
>>
>> 1. There are some simple tests for a language gaging very precisely 
>> the power of that language
>>
>> 2. I want D to pass those tests
>>
>> 3. I want to increase community's awareness of the importance of those 
>> tests for larger use cases, as well as gather ideas from the community 
>> about how to overcome D's shortcomings in passing the tests.
> 
> That's great, Andrei. And I, for one, truly want to see some of those 
> changes happen (such as read-only arrays, covered by the const you talk 
> of).
> 
> However, there are also some rather pressing matters of fixing stuff 
> that is simply broken, and is hampering attempts to build real, live, 
> useful apps at this time. Yeah, new features are sexy cool, and fixing 
> long-standing issues ain't.
> 
> How about taking a long hard look at what sucks in D right now, and 
> making those a primary priority? Having read many of your posts since 
> yesterday, it seems you've identified a number of those. Great! Yet, you 
> guys are apparently pressing ahead with wonderful new stuff instead? 
> Like, for instance, an updated GC? When did that ever top the list of 
> real-world issues for D?

I'm afraid I am not in the position to help here. All I'm really doin' 
is bitchin'. Walter does the actual work, and prioritizing and 
implementing is entirely his charter.

That being said, my view on what should be fixed in D is a bit 
different. For example, as I said, one of my main foci is putting a lead 
sarcophagus around "inout" before its radioactive waste affects too much 
code that will become broken later. Also, implicit conversion rules will 
change, and again I want to get that in ASAP so not too much code 
suffers. And so on.

> To anticipate a question:
> 
> There's some serious issues with templates in libs (you really can't put 
> them there successfully), some serious issues with debuggers not being 
> able to locate source-files for templates; lots of problems related to 
> real-world, end-user, /usability/ of the language on a daily basis.
> 
> I submit that such issues are just as important a test to pass than the 
> ones you allude to. Dare I say, perhaps more so for people actually 
> using the language right now?

I entirely agree. Figuring out priorities is Walter's call. Let's keep 
our fingers crossed :o).


Andrei