D vs VM-based platforms

[Tom]

Mike Parker escribió:
> Tom wrote:
>> You people can list a million of (mostly) theoretical benefits in 
>> having a VM. Java/.NET apps will continue to be damn slow despite of 
>> these statements (Java the most). That is the simple and self-evident 
>> truth. Aside from, the idea of having a CPU core for the exclusive use 
>> of a VM is a *total* waste. I don't trust in hardware solutions for 
>> software problems.
> 
> I strongly disagree that Java and C# are 'damn slow'. Have you seen some 
> of the games out there being developed in both languages? This is an 
> argument that will last into infinity, I'm sure. There are people who 
> use languages like Java and C# because they really do see benefits in 
> doing so. The fact that you don't doesn't make it less true that they 
> do. I've used Java for a variety of applications. 

I've seen no big games written in Java/C# (so I can't really hold a position on this ground). Though 
I've seen *A LOT* of server/client apps done in Java. The speed *IS* a concern, believe me. They ARE 
definitely slow in comparison to C/C++ apps.

On the other hand, I remember a great game that was written in a mix of C++/Python, and was REALLY 
GOOD and fast: Blade of darkness was its name IIRC. Though, the speed code was C++, so...

> I have a good feel for 
> what I think it is and isn't suitable for. What is and isn't beneficial 
> is highly subjective.
> 
> And really, someone who has never taken the time to roll their sleeves 
> up and dive into a language can really only speculate about it. How many 
> times have we seen C++ programmers dis D after glancing at the feature 
> comparison list without ever writing a line of D code? When you have 
> actually used a language in anger, you have a much better perspective as 
> to what its strengths and weaknesses are. 

Ehm, I work with Java/Perl the better part of the time. So, I think I've roll my sleeves a lot with 
it. :)

> The benefits they see are not 
> theoretical. To most Java programmers I know, speed is rarely a concern 
> (though it does pop up occasionally, particularly with trig functions). 
> If they weren't satisfied with the performance characteristics they 
> wouldn't be using it. They are more often concerned with distribution, 
> or the market penetration of a particular JRE version.

I can't deny the benefits, and they're not ALL theoretical. Though, Java has a lot of drawbacks in 
the performance market. It's really good (yet slow but good) for server side apps.

> Java and .NET both have a place. The benefits users see from them may or 
> may not be related to the existence of a VM, but those who do use the 
> languages usually do see benefits of some kind. Otherwise they'd all be 
> using C or C++.

Of course, and coming from the C++ world, that's why I like D so much.