Sharing in D

[superdan]

Steven Schveighoffer Wrote:

> "superdan" wrote
> > Steven Schveighoffer Wrote:
> >
> >> "superdan" wrote
> >> > you may as well be equally right. or even more right, as you usually 
> >> > are.
> >> > sure you are a great hacker who knows threads in and out, as "you spend 
> >> > a
> >> > lot of time thinking about multithreaded issues". i'm impressed. i do
> >> > suggest you run a lil experiment one day tho. google for walter bright.
> >> > figure out what kinds of shit he's done. google for bartosz milewski.
> >> > figure out for what kinds of shit he's done. google for andrei
> >> > alexanderescu. figure out for what kinds of shit he's done. then google
> >> > for steven schveighoffer. unless sure enough you are hans boehm in
> >> > disguise. then ask yourself. "is my big mouth going to make up for all
> >> > this?"
> >>
> >> Just because I'm not published all over google doesn't mean I don't know
> >> anything.  Your artistic use of the english language combined with 
> >> bullying
> >> tactics doesn't really phase me, as I care nothing about ego.  So go 
> >> right
> >> ahead and bitch about what I don't know :)  Last I heard, this is a 
> >> public
> >> forum, and I'm free to question Walter and his team as much as I want.
> >>
> >> I can't believe you pulled the "do you know who I am" card for Walter :)
> >>
> >
> > thanks for keeping ur cool. really appreciate that. my intent was not to 
> > bully you and shit.
> >
> > this is programming. it's not entomology. anybody who's somebody in 
> > programming *is* on the web somewhere for the web is nerdworld. some 
> > participation to an open source project. some blog. some article they've 
> > written. that's what i see all around.
> 
> I probably have more hits under schveiguy than Steven Schveighoffer.
> 
> But I don't really write articles.  I wrote one for topcoder when I was into 
> that (about threading coincidentally).

now yer talking. keep on doing that.

> > but i still agree. sometimes you can know your shit without being 
> > published. you work for nasa, cia, or some secretive hedge fund. or you 
> > just don't like sharing shit. no problem. but without a track record you 
> > must come with real good *factual* shit to be credible. not "i spend a lot 
> > of time thinking about this shit". not what you believe. without a proven 
> > track record nobody gives a shit on how you spend your nights or on what 
> > you believe.
> 
> What I meant by that is, I think possibly the only solution for 
> multithreadded issues is careful planning, training, and experience.  In 
> otherwords, my threading code works because I pay careful attention to the 
> threading details.  It might be impossible for a technical solution to exist 
> to prevent Joe Newb programmer from making threading mistakes.

and you're implying that it can't be done any better. you know, if everybody thought like you there'd be no progress.

i read napoleon's biography a while ago. one smart motherfucker that was. he really could do two things at the same time. i could only go as far as chew gum and fart. anyway there was this general of his. forgot his name. call him general mofo. so at austerlitz napoleon says let's do this and that. mofo comes back: "if i were you i'd do this and that". napoleon says: "that's why you are mofo and i'm fucking napoleon". i might've added a word in the quote somewhere :)

i was working at intel. there's this layout program that would take forfuckingever on a design i'd given it. so during lunch i'm like, "what a fucking piece of shit this layout algo is." and a new coworker smiles and says "i know. i designed it." he was kind enough to explain what problems he'd overcome. like heuristics on np complete shit. i don't even know exactly what that is. sure enough, when it's done his program did a layout i couldn't imagine in a brazillion years. these guys operate at a different level. and as far as walter or bartosz are concerned i'm a pathetic loser. at least i'm glad when i can appreciate a good idea if i see it. and the more it goes about how i feel it can't be done, the better the idea. at least with time i learned not to come all cocky and shit with stuff i don't grok.

> > so as long as you stick to facts u should be in good shape. if you come 
> > with "my opinion is" shit then you should understand nobody will give a 
> > shit. in fact they will give a negative shit because that further fucks 
> > your credibility.
> 
> You don't have to believe me.  Nobody has to believe me.  The fact that I 
> stated my opinion is good enough for me.  If I turn out to be right, then 
> people might listen to me next time.  If I turn out to be wrong, then it 
> still won't stop me from stating my opinion on the next issue.

doesn't work that way dewd. it's like crying wolf whenever you feel it in your urine. open the cabbage patches. then the mind. then the piehole. that's how it works.

i read this thread stuff yesterday a few times. my first reaction was it's useless. second reaction was it's restrictive as shit. third read i thought they might be up to something. and it was the interaction with invariant that brought it all home for me. most importantly i didn't shout my piehole around after the first read.

>  Mind, I 
> can't say anything about facts because I don't have any.  I'm very careful 
> to state things in terms of what "I think", and "my opinion".  I don't have 
> any more facts than Walter and company to know whether this concept will be 
> useful.  All I can say is what I think might happen (as is all Walter can 
> say too).  If it turns out to be the best thing since transitive const, then 
> I'm all for it.  Remember that Walter and company had several iterations 
> before they got that right.  I think that will probably be the case here 
> too.

my point is you (and me too) have less facts, less experience, less smarts, and less intuition than walt & co. if we tell them about a mistake, fine. but if we go with "i feel shit" that's not progress.

it's good you compare with the const shit. that's the most fucking awesome thing about d2. if you asked me before i would've told you nobody can pull that shit and live. more over. walt has got a shitstorm the size of fucking china when he got it wrong. if i were walt i would've given up. but that's why walt is walt he kept at it and pushed the shit through. what pisses me off is that to this day people still bitch about const while refusing to actually understand it. it's not even hard. first understand. then bitch.