The Death of D. (Was Tango vs Phobos)

[superdan]

Steven Schveighoffer Wrote:

> "superdan" wrote
> > Christopher Wright Wrote:
> >
> >> Walter Bright wrote:
> >> > Christopher Wright wrote:
> >> >> A number of modules in phobos/internal are marked public domain. Are
> >> >> you asking for Tango's internals to be placed in the public domain?
> >> >> That also is a bit much to ask.
> >> >
> >> > Why is it a bit much to ask?
> >>
> >> The BSD license allows anyone to do anything with the work as long as
> >> the authors get proper recognition. The one incentive to distribute the
> >> work is this recognition (besides encouraging others to help with the
> >> project).
> >>
> >> If you're not going to take any Tango code and claim that it is yours,
> >> then the BSD license shouldn't cause any problems for you. If you
> >> require public domain, that implies that the BSD license causes problems
> >> for you. That implies that you're going to steal code.
> >
> > you're not following what walt says eh. his problem is not he wanna steal 
> > and get away with it. problem is that he doesn't wanna be accused of 
> > stealing. poop man. he got accused before even lookin' at the gorram 
> > thing. also his problem is not he doesn't wanna acknowledge whodunit. i 
> > grepped around phobos and there's many names in there. there's even a guy 
> > whos name is in there tho all his stuff has been rewritten since.
> >
> > what walt wanna is look at tango without fear that some dood will cry he 
> > stole his code. after all there's only this many ways you can do trivial 
> > sh... stuff like async i/o and logging and containers. slander comes 
> > easily and goes not so easily. is he paranoid? sure as hell he is. oh, 
> > wait. some dood _did_ cry walt stole (thru brad) his precious soon as they 
> > was within a hundred miles. all this while walt is known to give credit 
> > down to the dog pooping in the driveway walt was looking at when he came 
> > with an idea. give me an intercoursing break.
> 
> The problem is, there is never a guarantee of that.  Joe Shmoe can come 
> along and claim that he works with Sean and Sean stole all his D Thread code 
> and gave it to tango.  Now, even though the entire Tango team has given 
> permission to Walter, he is still in trouble.

do you want us to participate in a dialog. or revel in improbable possibilities. this is a red herring.

> The answer is, either Walter accepts that Sean (and others who gave 
> permission) are the rightful owners of the Tango runtime, and he has 
> permission to use it, or Walter is so paranoid that he trusts nobody who 
> says they own code, and he doesn't use it.  He needs to have some faith that 
> the person who says they own the code actually does.

i gather you don't quite read all messages. walt don't want to deliver a compiler with code he can't control. he must deliver code he can change. if that code works with tango walt must know what he gotta do. to do so he must look at tango. sean is cool with that. kris and lars "mi" ivar arent.

> >> I don't believe that you would do so. But by requiring Tango to be
> >> placed in the public domain, you're allowing everyone else to do so.
> >
> > he didn't require tango to be placed in the public domain. he asked for 
> > the same deal he gave to tango. actually he didn't even ask. he just 
> > mentioned what it takes for him to look at the code.
> 
> I agree with you on this, but the fact still remains that Walter is not safe 
> as soon as he looks at any code, no matter who says they wrote it, unless he 
> himself wrote it.  I think this is taking it a little too extreme.

yeah, ur interpretation. that's extreme.

> >> >> The BSD license is simply public domain with attribution.
> >> >
> >> > No, it is not. Public Domain code is not copyrighted and does not
> >> > require a license.
> >>  >
> >> >> So what is the issue with using it? Phobos already uses it. Just with
> >> >> your name as the copyright holder.
> >> >>
> >> >> Or do you want an agreement to allow relicensing of Phobos and Tango,
> >> >> let's say to incompatible licenses, and still allow Phobos and Tango
> >> >> to share code afterward?
> >> >>
> >> >> It's unclear what you want or need that you don't already have.
> >> >
> >> > The problems are two:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Phobos has already been accused of stealing code from Tango.
> >> > Therefore, I would like explicit permission from the Tango team. I am
> >> > not going to take code from Tango and put it in Phobos without explicit
> >> > permission from the Tango team. Any hint of Phobos not having a clean
> >> > legal pedigree will impair its adoption.
> >>
> >> The BSD license is explicit permission. Or do you intend to redistribute
> >> Tango code without proper attribution?
> >
> > no. he just wants to escape the tyranny of slander. he's just worried that 
> > a tyrangot will _claim_ walt redistributed tango code without proper 
> > attribution.
> 
> The owners have given him permission, and promised not to slander.

now i am sure u read every other message in this thread. go back and read'em all.

>  Anyone 
> who cries foul after the rightful owners have given permission is full of 
> crap, and I will be the first to say so.

no permission was given. do you like me post drunk sometimes.

>  So long as Walter and co. just 
> look at the proper files (the ones with the permission).  Hell, I don't care 
> if he looks at all of tango, as long as he either doesn't copy the code, or 
> if he does, obeys the license requirements.

_you_ don't care. others can't wait. they cried foul as soon as there was potential code could've been copied. gorramit. at least if there was da momma of all code. but it's java containers net stack log4j etc. just how many ways could log4j be in d.

> I don't think any Tango devs are waiting to jump on Walter at the first 
> chance Phobos is compatible with Tango.  I think everyone in Tango is 
> interested in having Phobos and Tango compatible.

would be great but don't quite look like it. why don't u do some homework and read messages. i took 2 days. then talk.