Totally OT: Quantum Mechanics proof for the existence of a Supreme Conciousness?

[Aarti_pl]

Yigal Chripun pisze:
> Aarti_pl wrote:
>>> "This fine-tuning has two possible explanations. Either the Universe
>>> was designed specifically for us by a creator or there is a multitude
>>> of universes—a "multiverse". "
>>>
>>> http://environment.newscientist.com/article/mg15821375.100-anything-goes.html
>>>
>>>
>>> I love the way he dismisses the first option as absurd, regardless of
>>> the consequences which follow when choosing the second option.
>> That's why finding God based only on science IMHO is not possible. As
>> Yigal Chripun already mentioned science is based on set of assumptions
>> which don't allow scientists to explore some of possible explanations.
>> I don't think it is so bad for scientists, as you never knows before
>> what you will find just beyond the corner: another physical law or God
>> himself. But what is good for scientists is not necessary so good for
>> human being. If scientists are missing something very important (as
>> God :-) ), a lot of people can be misleaded by believing in scientists
>> theories...
>>
>> Another drawback of these basic scientists assumptions is that they
>> can lead scientists to accept  very strange and improbable theories as
>> truth. So in some sense it cause scientists to accept theories which
>> are more complicated than necessary, what is kind of paradox, taking
>> Ockham's razor principle into account. In article mentioned above
>> author noticed that universe seems to be precisely fine-tuned for
>> humans to live, but it led author to conclusion that there are
>> infinite number of different universes. In such a high level abstract,
>> unverifiable thinking, the existence of God should be taken into
>> consideration on the same level as such theories. The more: there IS
>> some evidence of God's existence. And this IS fully scientific
>> evidence. It's not evidence of kind which physicians and
>> mathematicians would look for, as you can not reproduce in controlled
>> environment your experiment to prove something. But it is evidence
>> which will be gladly accepted by historicians. I mean here simplest
>> evidence available: testimony of different people experiencing God in
>> their life.
>>
>> If anyone wants to know my exact opinion on that matter you can
>> contact me through my web page: www.zapytajmnie.com
>>
>> BR
>> Marcin Kuszczak
>> (aarti_pl)
> science operates based on a set of axioms
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom) which basically means that science
> is limited in what it can deduce. what you imply with the word
> "assumptions" is basically that if the assumption is wrong everything
> derived from it would also be wrong, so all our knowledge is just a pile
> of assumptions that can be wrong. that's different from using axioms as
> your starting point. There are cases where a scientific theory is based
> on an assumption but science tries very hard to minimize this as much as
> possible and to remain with ideally no assumptions at all. that's what
> ocham's razor is all about.

I did not imply anything with word assumption. I just couldn't remind 
the word 'axiom' and used 'assumption' as replacement. It was probably 
not very perfect match :-). I completely agree with you about scope of 
scientific method: it is limited with basic axioms.

But unfortunately I can also observe that many scientists have specific 
"assumptions" about existence of God. So they are not very objective in 
their statements.

> regarding god, it is true that science doesn't/shouldn't deal with the
> question of god, as a belief system relies on people accepting it
> _without_ any formal proof. if you provide such a proof that god exists
> (or not) you make the answer a fact, and it stops being a belief.
> that said (and without insulting anyone religion/faith/belief system),
> my opinion is as follows:
> 1) the question of god cannot be answered by science so it's irrelevant
> and my view of the world does not depend on its answer.

...yup...

> 2) I can reason logically and show that logically god doesn't exist but
> as i said, god isn't supposed to be logical or scientific so even if i
> could prove that he/she/it didn't exist it's irrelevant to my view of
> the world  as stated in (1).
> 
> if god is almighty and can do anything, he can create a rock no one can
> lift, so he either cannot lift it or he can't create it, both ways show
> a logical contradiction to the idea of an all powerful god.
> 

This is just logical antinomy. You can prepare lot of similar statements 
e.g.:

1. If god is almighty he could create quadratic circle.
2. If god is almighty he can exists and not exists in the same time.

But please notice that no one ever claimed that because God is almighty 
he should be internally inconsistent. or he can do things that are 
logically not possible... :-)


> --Yigal (just another atheist..)
> 
> 


BR
Marcin Kuszczak
(aarti_pl)