Polishing D - suggestions and comments

[Bill Baxter]

Kris wrote:
> "Bill Baxter" <dnewsgroup at billbaxter.com> wrote in message 
> news:fngcb5$1eee$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>>> doesn't require you to "get religion" first.
>>> Tango can be somewhat different from phobos, yes. Does it require 
>>> adoption of a "religion" to be different, Bill? Surely that's a bit of a 
>>> stretch?
>> Heh heh.  By "get religion" I just mean you have to make a significant 
>> non-default choice that will affect and influence your subsequent actions. 
>> And once you "believe in Tango" it's difficult to share your code with 
>> other "non-believers" without first getting them to convert first.
> 
> 
> Ah, right :)
> 
> I was concerned some folks might get the wrong idea there, so thanks for the 
> clarification. But again, I suspect there's something a tad misguiding? For 
> example:
> 
> - Tangobos exposes the phobos API atop the Tango runtime. Thus, we already 
> have exactly what you described earlier, but with the roles reversed. e.g. 
> phobos is running within Tango, rather than the other way around. That makes 
> a lot of sense to many folks. There was a notable call (in this NG) to 
> combine the API from both, and that has been available for the last couple 
> of releases. We did it this way because the first approach wound up going 
> nowhere of note, and many people complained about a lack of progress.
> 
> - some consider this aspect: 
> http://dsource.org/projects/tango/wiki/TangoUsers
> 
> - You note that Tango is a "significant non-default choice". For those who 
> download bundles from DSource, that is not the case. Tango is the default 
> choice there, with an option to embed the phobos API as an extension.
> 
> - I know of several significant libraries in the works, which target Tango 
> alone. There are a variety of reasons for that, but one often cited is the 
> raw-efficiency of the I/O model (it runs rings around the C lib, for 
> example).
> 
> The point you appear to make is one that's been held aloft in the past. 

Yes, the gap is narrowing.  Which is great.

> However, there are solid resolutions readily available, and the implication 
> that targeting Tango is somehow going to afflict the longevity or 
> compatibility of one's code really could not be further from the truth. 
 > In
 > fact, your assertion over this aspect would likely make much more 
sense if
 > it were inverted ;)

I said nothing about longevity.  I don't see that as a problem at all. 
Just compatibility.  And the fact is Tango code remains incompatible 
with the default install of dmd digitalmars.com.  Which is what the 
majority of casual users are likely to end up with.  Why? Because if you 
google trying to find out about D you're going to end up at digitalmars.com.

I think it would be great if links to the Tango distro were listed right 
alongside the Phobos packages on DigitalMars.com.  Then my argument 
would go away because first-timers would all see it and think, "ah ok 
this is just as official ... and more featureful. I'll go for that." 
But right now they aren't and most people checking out D are just going 
to get the default and be happy enough with that.

--bb