Unofficial wish list status.(Jul 2008)

[superdan]

> > > == Quote from bearophile (bearophileHUGS at lycos.co)'s article
> > > > 4tuu4k002 at sneakemail.com:
> > > > > This is the monthly status for the unofficial d wish list:
> > > > ...
> > > > It's curious to see that many or most of the top desired things don't seem among the list of the next things
> > > planned as improvements/changes for the D/DMD. I don't know what this means. Are people asking for
> > > unimportant things? Are the D designers smarter? Are the two groups ignoring each other?
> > >
> > > For better or worse, I don't personally feel that the D designers listen to the D community
> > > at all.  Certainly not since D 2.0 was started at any rate.  Or perhaps it's just that my goals
> > > with D simply diverged beginning with 2.0.
> > wut the heck is ur problem sean, u were the only sane guy left at tango. now u r coming with badmouthing n shit.
> recently u were like "walter is trying 2 lure people to d2. if that happens, i'm out." where the fuck did that conspiracy
> theory come from. walter never did anything to put his integrity into question.
> 
> I was bothered by the fact that some issues that many people consider bugs in D 1.0 are only
> being fixed in D 2.0, and I ignored my better judgement and shot my mouth off.  It was a
> mistake.

u r a good man sean and this proves it again.

> > now wuts with this walter doesn't listen shit. whining baby. i'm sayin': walter does listen and does do great shit, the
> only problem is that most of us don't know what we're talking about and can't remember what we want from 1 moment 2
> the next.
> 
> No offense, but um... speak for yourself.  There are quite a few people here who are very
> talented and whose comments are not only consistent, but very well considered and quite
> well reasoned.

of course my statement needs qualification. u, steve, janice, bill, bearophile, dee and few others know their shit. and best of all they know what they don't know. but for majority of the rest, i'll take a fucking break. look at the reply from "me here". absofuckinglutely typical: overconfident, boastful, knows what's best for the fucking humankind better than fucking superman and fucking spiderman combined with batman thrown in as a freebie. the dood knows a little shit which only makes matters worse because that makes him think he knows everything. as far as that dood is concerned he has taken care of threading. in his world everything is trivially parallelizable. fuck. if half of what dood says is true, the fellas racking their brains at http://view.eecs.berkeley.edu/wiki/Main_Page and all over the fucking universe could go home. and that dood could go collect his fucking turing award. 

as an aside. he says functional is lame. but then i mean look at fucking haskell. it is designed to only have one user, and that with a thick manual by his side, to participate in obfuscated programming contests. yet wherever i turn nowadays, everybody and their fucking bellydancer with transparent stilettos is using haskell. why? well because threading shit has hit the fan and haskell is a handkerchief. and don't get me started on fucking erlang. look at its strings. lists with fucking 16 bytes per character. not even utf compatible. fuck. those guys thought there's not much use for strings in a fucking telephone relay haven't they. yet, fuck me but amazon uses fucking erlang. now d is poised better coz it is imperative and functional so u use what is best for each part of the app. of course that dood royally misses all that point.

> But Walter has said himself that he has difficulty working with people in
> other than a face to face setting and it shows.  Back when Andrei was still posting here
> someone asked what one should do to have a proposal considered or at least garner a
> response and the process was laid out very clearly.  Since then, quite a few people have
> followed that process exactly and I can't remember any of the proposals getting a comment
> from either Walter or Andrei.

now what the fuck is that dood's problem. somebody tell him swallow his fucking russian pride and haul his ass over here. but then what's he gonna do. argue shit with "me here" and other "doods here". contrary 2 u i think this is a problem, not a good thing: every single mofo here has 1 opinion and feels entitled to a response. but if walter takes time to explain every mofo why they're wrong, that's a fucking full time job right there. there is no filtering of value. and i dunno what the fuck is with this group. the less they know the more they think they know and the more entitled they come. like coz they're stupid they paid a tax to use d or shit.

>  If a tree falls in the forest and there's no one around to hear
> it, does it make a sound?  And if a proposal is posted and it doesn't get a single response,
> has anyone read it?  I know it's difficult to keep up with the posts in this NG and impossible
> to actually act on all of them, but even a "thanks" goes an incredibly long way in terms of
> making people feel like their comments matter.

wonder if "thanks 4 nothing, mofo" would qualify. coz that's closer 2 truth for most so-called proposals.

> >look at that list. it's a pile of shit with the most prefuckingposterous requests in the fucking history of fucking
> programming languages. look at vectorization. who the fuck came with that sick idea. hell, std.algorithm does that shit
> better and nicer and didn't need language changes.
> 
> std.algorithm does vectorization?  I had no idea.  Don's BLADE (?) package does though
> and it's totally awesome and also didn't require language changes, so the point is still
> valid.
> 
> > > > When I think about such matters I remember a quote, usually attributed to Henry Ford: "If I'd asked people what
> > > they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."
> > > > So maybe D programmers want faster horses, while D developers are inventing/providing cars :-) I don't know.
> > >
> > > It's an interesting question, and one I've been mulling over for a few years now.  My
> > > understanding is that C++ was created as a very community-driven effort right from the
> > > start while D was designed based very much on what Walter thought would be good in a
> > > language.  As a result, C++ ended up bogged down with a lot of legacy C baggage that the
> > > community insisted was necessary for them to adopt C++, while D could change tracks on
> > > the designer's whim and no one could say otherwise.  Generally, I think the D approach works
> > > far better so long as the designer's goals match the interests of the community, but it's a
> > > pretty risky path to follow since the designer is basically betting the farm on the hope that the
> > > community will agree with his vision.  In the past I've been pretty free with my opinions about
> > > language features and I do this because I don't want to feel that I didn't try to make myself
> > > heard if I ever give up on D.  At least then I can feel that I did my best to communicate to the
> > > designers what's important to me as a user of the language.
> > u r wrong. bjarne has had control of language long time b4 it became successful. it's his vision 4 better or worse. u r
> looking at the success years of c++ when committees and crap came all over. don't panic when d will be successful with
> muggles there will be a committee over it like a cheap suit.
> 
> I suggest reading "The Design and Evolution of C++" if you haven't already.  It's pretty clear that
> Bjarne validated much of C++ by asking influential C users about its features.

yeah read it. good book. the bulk was bjarne's. the diff from d is that c++ got famous faster because every1 was ripe for it. nowadays market's tighter.

> > so wut is that stuff u want in d. u haven't even tried d2 so it loox like u r interested more in bitchin' than in making real
> suggestions. now seriously. speak up. what is it that u as a member of the community wanna say and walter doesn't
> listen.
> 
> I've tried D2.  I've read the spec as well.  I simply don't like it.  As for my suggestions, feel free
> to use the search feature in the digitalmars.com website, because many are here in this forum
> or D.announce.  But you do have a point in that I have become quite weary of the D drama in
> general.  I simply don't have the enthusiasm I used to, and that's entirely my own fault.  This
> has been the longest I've ever worked on a personal programming project (at a guess, 4-5
> years on Tango/Ares?) and I feel I've accomplished what I set out to do here, and that should
> be enough.  I'll be better in the future about posting when I've had a bad day.  My apologies.

better days will come that's 4 sure. thanx 4 sharing.