[~ot] why is programming so fun?

[Yigal Chripun]

After removing all your preaching to the "only absolute god", I still
have a few of your quotes I want to address:

> My claim is that the Christian God (originating in 
> the old testament) is distinct, consistant, and accurate and works for
> all peoples in this world. 

wrong: your god is inconsistent. the Hebrew bible makes a few points
very important and clear about god, one of which is that he supposed to
be one. not have a family.
It's like the bewitched TV series where the story is based on 3 sisters
which a prophecy foretold to be the most powerful witches ever lived,
and than after a few seasons one of the actresses gets a better job so
the writers kill her character and invent a "new" half-sister.
If you take the story of Jesus and replace "Jesus" with Hercules you'll
get remarkably similar stories if not almost identical stories. your new
testament is made out of 4 different versions of the same story (chosen
arbitrarily by Constantine out of more than 18 that we know of). of
course, I do not claim that "god" has to be consistent. The Hebrew bible
of course has also some inconsistencies - there are three versions of
the story of the creation of humans, IIRC.

> I merely deny that your Jewish rendering 
> works or is consistant with prophecies therein.

they may be inconsistent with your version but they are certainly
consistent as much as possible with the Hebrew source.

> Furthermore,  by definition, one who call
> himself an athiest is one of the least open-minded of all -- if he were
> not, he wouldn't be an athiest.
> 
Again, wrong. atheists rely on evidence and proof while you rely on your
[blind] absolute faith. If in the future science finds a better theory
that invalidates the theory of relativity that would be OK with atheists
since they rely on evidence and facts, and no one claims Einstein or any
other man of science to be holy. however, you deal with absolutes that
cannot be invalidated. since your god's words are absolute truth, no
matter what I say and what evidence I'll bring that will not matter to
you. so I'll say the most open minded people are in fact atheists.
Haven't you learned about what the Christian church did to the likes of
Galileo and Darwin who broke accepted consensuses of their time?

> we must go beyond discussing mere
> perspectives of God and start getting a more rigid understanding of who
> he is, why we are here, and where we are going.  I claim that rejecting
> the Christian God is fatal, even if it is a choice that one is certainly
> allowed to make.  As an analogy, a murderer may have the "choice" to
> kill his victim in that he is capable of acting out the incident, but
> even so he will have to experience the consequences of that action when
> he is caught and handed over to a just judge.
> 

you assume there is a reason for our existence without any evidence.
your world view is based on a ton of unproven assumptions in contrast to
Occam's razor. Again, you preach for your absolute truths and of course
anyone who thinks differently will go to hell. why not resurrect the
institution of the inquisition if you're at it? you use the word "fatal"
and compare anyone with a different view with a murderer. is there any
wonder no sane person would want to further debate the subject with you?

 Jesus said "I am the
> way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father except through
> Me."
Jesus didn't say anything, nor do we know if he actually existed. you
/believe/ he said that based on your 4 different conflicting versions
compiled 200 years after he supposedly lived.

to conclude:
a) In my original post I only talked about what is the Jewish view on
the subject, and while I appreciate it's mostly successful attempt to be
consistent with itself I do not believe the existence of it just like I
like the lord of the rings which is a masterpiece in my mind, while I
know that it's only a story (albeit a very good one) and that elves,
orcs and hobbits do not exist.
b) your post "smells" of preaching to your cause on the other hand and
as you say refusing to believe in the Christian god is fatal. At least
in Judaism no one threatens me with an eternal torture in hell if I
choose to reject the religion. I guess I should be thankful for being
born in a Jewish family...
While you were born a sinner according to your faith, I was merely born
a human being with a free will according to what should be mine. I chose
not to believe. The Jewish god is merciful and forgiving and accepts
that we are only humans and make mistakes (even the most holy of Jews,
Abraham, sinned but he repented and god forgave him. on the other hand
you are born a sinner and you will go to hell unless you'll be holier
than the pope which is an impossible jobs for mere humans. If I were
religious I wouldn't want to be born a Christian.
c) according to my Jewish upbringing I do not feel the urge to convert
the world to my faith (or lack thereof). I do not claim any absolutes
about god and faith and there are of course many things I do not like in
Judaism as well, I rather think that all religions are like Opium to the
masses (and you seems to be overdosed).
But I do keep my opinion that out of the three main monotheist religions
Christianity is the most insidious and has the worst track-record of
them all. At least Islam doesn't try to give me an eternal torture in
hell and accepts all nations who believe in Allah (god in Arabic) as
written in the Q'oran [English spelling?] in contrast to what the
terrorist extremists claim.
d) This IS my final post on the subject.

--Yigal