Spreading the word about D

[Yigal Chripun]

Chris R. Miller wrote:
> Yigal Chripun wrote:
>> Chris R. Miller wrote:
>>> Yigal Chripun wrote:
>>>> Also, what about using Google groups?
>>> Googlegroups would be a very powerful tool indeed.  I have some
>>> experience administering various Google Groups, and as such I have to
>>> warn that they are subject to a large amount of spam.  Perhaps a GNU
>>> Mailman list instead, or perhaps a phpBB3.0 forum?
>>>
>> definitely NOT any kind of a mailing list - those are user unfriendly.
>> I'd prefer mirroring the D news groups on Google groups and I'm sure the
>> spam can be dealt with, for instance by requiring a sign-up.
> 
> Also in my experience is that a sign-up system greatly reduces the
> number of new sign-ups, mainly because people never read the instructions.
> 
> A funny anecdote from that is the story of the Linux Users Group on
> Google Groups (http://groups.google.com/group/linuxusersgroup), where we
> were getting so much spam that the administrators decided to manually
> screen all potential new members by hand by asking a security question:
>  "Do you intend to spam the group?"
> 
> The majority of applicants put nothing there, presumably because they're
> mindless spambots.
> 
> Some people read the instructions and wrote "no."
> 
> Others condensed their whole resume and autobiography down to a size
> that it would fit in the tiny input box.  Of course, they never answered
> the question, so we were forced to deny them.
> 
> Some people answered "yes."
> 
> Others treated it like some kind of door, and they'd write stuff like
> "hello plz let me in plz i want to ask qestionz abt linus!"  These guys
> were so funny we actually started a private Google Group for just the
> admins to share these funny replies with.
> 
> 
> 
> So, returning to the original topic, while screening newbies does have
> its merit, I have found that it really doesn't do that well.  People are
> used to captchas, proving their humanity by responding to an email from
> a mailman list manager, and they have also proven an inability to read a
> question and answer it (which would explain the dismal scores seen in
> schools nowadays).  You're welcome to try, and it will be successful,
> but you may end up inadvertently screening out people who will in time
> become good members of the community.  Heck, when I first started on
> mailing lists and forums so many years ago, I was not very smart, I was
> annoying, and if I now were an admin and I then entered, I would ban me
> in an instant.  Eventually I straightened myself out and learned to shut
> up (most of the time) but I caution you to think of the newbies.  Yes,
> they're annoying, but they do get better over time.
> 
>> Of all the Language sites the php site is widely known for its
>> organization and documentation. D needs something /at least/ of that
>> level. My perfect D site would run on a CMS with different perspectives
>> for different user types. D programmers require a different set of tools
>> and documentation from the set of tools and documentation required for
>> the developers of the language and its environment itself ( that means
>> the compiler, runtime, standard lib, etc...).
> 
> Perhaps Drupal?  Maybe using it as an opportunity to upgrade and expand
> dsource?  There are many paths we might take.  In my experience Joomla
> is just a pain to work with.  I rather like the idea of making the site
> in D itself, perhaps using Wombat or FastCGI4D.  It would be an epic
> project assuming it's aimed as a whole CMS, so perhaps something on
> Django would do better?  Then we could use Pygment's excellent D source
> code highlighter.  We'd have to convince someone to leave D long enough
> to mess around in Python long enough to make the site, and even then
> convincing someone to maintain it would be bothersome to say the least.
> 
> There are many possible choices, so we should probably make a list of
> advantages and disadvantages of each on Wiki4D or something like that,
> assuming it does become a community decision (I was always under the
> impression that what Walter does with his site was his own business,
> though if he's willing to entertain our ideas that's great too).
> 

Just to note a few things:
A) I totally agree with Jarret's post about the problem of impersonators.

B) I think that there should be separation between the D language itself
and Walter's site. Walter's site should be about his implementation -
DMD, and a different site should be created for the D language
specification itself which would point to all the related sites, like
digital mars, the GDC site (do they even have a site?), Dsource, etc...
I know there once was a d-programming-language.com site which could be
made the official gateway to all info related to the language.

C) regarding sign-up: you don't have to block all newbies. you can have
different policies for different groups. namely, the D.learn NG
shouldn't have the same policy as this NG. It makes sense to have a
place for newbies to ask questions without a registration separate from
a different group for the regulars here, and maybe even a third group
for developers and contributers to the D language. Also a separation of
the D language specification from the different compiler implementors
should be considered, for example the "D language specification group"
can be the place for different implementors to discuss implementation
techniques like the GC implementation, the run-time, and the standard
lib. currently there is no such place that I'm aware of besides this
group where people can discuss and concentrate on those issues.

D) Regarding a CMS: I agree that Joomla sucks. Of course a D cms would
be the best option, but since we currently don't have one, I'd suggest
something like modx (modxcms.com) or maybe RoR. Anything that is
flexible and without unneeded restrictions.