Why we chose not to use D for our Linux project
Lars Ivar Igesund
larsivar at igesund.net
Thu May 29 12:56:38 PDT 2008
Bill Lear wrote:
> Sean Kelly Wrote:
> [...]
>> I agree with your comment on tools and libraries in general, but D does
>> already have a solid
>> install/update/build tool in DSSS/rebuild. With it, installing supported
>> packages is as simple as "dsss net install blah", which I believe is
>> roughly equivalent to ruby gems or whatever you
>> used there instead. Regarding DB support, I think some branch of DDBI
>> may actually build with the current version of D, but you're right that
>> it doesn't receive a lot of attention. Unfortunately, D is still very
>> much a language for self-starters, and the overarching focus on newer and
>> more features rather than building a solid base for development probably
>> doesn't help things either. Overall, the trend seems to be a churn of
>> new users rather than
>> a growing group of serious professionals--likely for these reasons. That
>> said, there are more than a few professional developers which have found
>> a development environment which suits them--from my experience it tends
>> to be DMD/Linux and Tango with either makefiles or DSSS for building and
>> GDB with the demangling patch for debugging.
>
> Thanks to all for the (mostly) thoughtful comments on this issue. I have
> tried again, this time documenting my steps, to more thouroughly
> illustrate what I am going through. Here is a more-or-less verbatim run
> of my efforts to get dbi compiled and installed. To say the least, the
> results are less than satisfying: Download and install d 1.030.
>
> Go to D web site to find OBI component. Look for something that
> indicates "tools", or "libraries" for D. See "Tools" section.
> Look in "More Tools" link. Nothing there, so back to the
> main page. Look under "Community"/"D links". Looks good.
> Using Firebugs, search for "Database" on the page. Find D DBI.
> Ok, click it.
>
> Look for "downloads". Find "Recommended" is "Version 0.2.5", so
> download that to my build directory and unzip the zip file.
>
> Look for and find doc on "HowToBuild". It says:
>
> The current recommended way to build dbi.lib is to use buildme.d. It comes
> in the directory below dbi.
>
> To build a release version of D DBI with every module, use any of
> the following:
>
> dmd -run buildme.d all
>
> So, I try the first command:
>
> % cd tags/0.2.5
> % dmd -run buildme.d all
> buildme.d: module buildme cannot read file 'buildme.d'
>
> So, it fails because it cannot read the file. So, I figure out why:
>
> ls -l
> total 28
> ---------- 1 rael rael 4478 2007-02-03 01:21 buildme.d
> drwxr-xr-x 10 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:02 dbi
> drwxr-xr-x 3 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:02 docs
>
> It has unzipped things with no read permissions. So, I fix it and try
> again:
>
> % chmod +rw buildme.d
> % dmd -run buildme.d all
> buildme.d(42): module FileConst cannot read file 'tango/io/FileConst.d'
>
> With no clue as to what this means, I read the source file buildme.d,
> and discover that it appears to support two versions, Phobos, and
> something else, presumably Tango. So, I read the dmd doc to see how
> to set this flag (dmd -Dversion=Phobos didn't work). Finding that,
> I try again, and fail again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run buildme.d all
> sh: bud: command not found
>
> So, I try to find bud. I go back to the dlinks page and find it
> and download it, and attempt to build IT:
>
> % cd bud-3.04
>
> The instructions say:
>
> If you have no existing binary, the executable must be built with
> the makefile first:
>
> make -f Makefile.unix
>
> So, I try that:
>
> % make -f Makefile.unix
> make: Makefile.unix: No such file or directory
> make: *** No rule to make target `Makefile.unix'. Stop.
>
> Ah, ok. Let's see what's wrong now:
>
> % ls
> Source
>
> Ok, would have been nice to document that, but forging ahead...
>
> % cd Source
> % make -f Makefile.unix
> dmd -op -release -inline -ofbuild build.d util/pathex_bn.d util/pathex.d
> source_bn.d util/str.d build_bn.d util/booltype.d util/fdt_bn.d
> util/str_bn.d source.d util/fdt.d util/fileex.d util/fileex_bn.d
> util/linetoken.d util/linetoken_bn.d util/macro.d util/file2.d
> build.d(56): Identifier expected following package build.d(56): ';'
> expected build.d(634): identifier expected following '.', not 'macro'
> build.d(3348): identifier expected following '.', not 'macro'
> source.d(55): Identifier expected following package source.d(55): ';'
> expected source.d(105): Identifier expected following package
> source.d(105): ';' expected source.d(483): identifier expected following
> '.', not 'macro' util/macro.d(38): Identifier expected following package
> make: *** [build] Error 1
>
> So, the build tool itself advertised to build the tool I want to use
> fails to build. Irony...
>
> So, I discover after a long set of searches and guess on my part that
> 'util.macro' should perhaps be 'util.Macro'. I make those substitutions
> in the bud source code and the build of it finally works:
>
> % make -f Makefile.unix
> dmd -op -release -inline -ofbuild build.d util/pathex_bn.d util/pathex.d
> source_bn.d util/str.d build_bn.d util/booltype.d util/fdt_bn.d
> util/str_bn.d source.d util/fdt.d util/fileex.d util/fileex_bn.d
> util/linetoken.d util/linetoken_bn.d util/macro.d util/file2.d
>
> Noting that the bud build instructions also say:
>
> It is still imperative to build a final binary with the utility itself:
>
> ./build build -full -op
> ln -s build bud
>
> So:
>
> % ./build build -full -op
> Source.d(55): module Macro cannot read file 'util/Macro.d'
>
> Of course not. So, I move util/macro.d to util/Macro.d:
>
> % mv util/macro.d util/Macro.d
>
> try again:
>
> % ./build build -full -op
> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libphobos.a when searching for
> -lphobos /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lphobos
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>
> Usure how a freshly installed libphobos.a from the freshly installed dmd
> package could be a problem:
>
> % which dmd
> /opt/dmd/bin/dmd
> % ls -l /opt/dmd/lib/libphobos.a
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 1344630 2008-05-16 23:01 /opt/dmd/lib/libphobos.a
> % ls -l /usr/lib/libphobos.a
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1344630 2008-05-28 14:17 /usr/lib/libphobos.a
> % cmp /opt/dmd/lib/libphobos.a /usr/lib/libphobos.a
> % echo $?
> 0
>
> So, the files are identical...
>
> Oh, and here's another cool thing:
>
> % ls -l build
> ls: cannot access build: No such file or directory
>
> So, the build failure erases the build file itself. Very, very cool.
>
> So, rebuild from makefile:
>
> % make -f Makefile.unix
> make: *** No rule to make target `util/macro.d', needed by `build'. Stop.
>
> Of course. So, I link util/Macro.d to util/macro.d:
>
> % cd util/
> % ln -s Macro.d macro.d
> % cd ..
> % make -f Makefile.unix
> dmd -op -release -inline -ofbuild build.d util/pathex_bn.d util/pathex.d
> source_bn.d util/str.d build_bn.d util/booltype.d util/fdt_bn.d
> util/str_bn.d source.d util/fdt.d util/fileex.d util/fileex_bn.d
> util/linetoken.d util/linetoken_bn.d util/macro.d util/file2.d
>
> And now, move build to something else, perhaps?:
>
> % mv build buildit
> % ./buildit build -full -op
> /usr/bin/ld: skipping incompatible /usr/lib/libphobos.a when searching for
> -lphobos /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lphobos
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
>
> And now I discover that since I have a 64-bit machine, perhaps I am
> just totally hosed?
>
> dmd itself seems to work fine:
>
> % cd /opt/dmd/samples/d/
> % dmd wc.d
> % echo "Hello world" | ./wc
> % ./wc wc.d
> lines words bytes file
> 45 80 810 wc.d
>
> So, what the hell, I'll try with the version of bud built from the
> makefile and see if that is good enough:
>
> % cp buildit ~/bin
> % cd /build/tags/0.25
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run buildme.d all
> Error: dbi/all.d: Permission denied
>
> Lovely, more permissions errors:
>
> % ls -l dbi/all.d
> ---------- 1 rael rael 250 2007-02-03 01:21 dbi/all.d
>
> So, fix them:
>
> % find . -type f | xargs chmod +rw
>
> and try again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run buildme.d all
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1147): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1147): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1147): Declaration expected, not ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1188): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1188): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1188): Declaration expected, not ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1200): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1200): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1200): Declaration expected, not ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1216): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1216): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1216): Declaration expected, not ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1231): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1231): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/orl.d(1231): Declaration expected, not ','
> dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(404): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(404): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(404): Declaration expected, not ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(1106): found 'ref' when expecting ')'
> dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(1106): semicolon expected following function
> declaration dbi/oracle/imp/ori.d(1106): Declaration expected, not ')'
>
> Ok, it's building oracle. I don't really want oracle. The code
> says I can pass '-mysql'. Try that:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run buildme.d -mysql
> Error: Invalid argument "-mysql." "mysql" isn't on the list of DBDs to
> build.
>
> Try again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run buildme.d mysql
>
> Hmm, no errors, no nothing. What did it do?
>
> % ls -lt
> total 36
> drwxr-xr-x 10 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 16:03 dbi
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 16:03 libddbi.a
> drwxr-xr-x 3 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 docs
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 4478 2007-02-03 01:21 buildme.d
>
> % ls -l libddbi.a/
> total 0
> % ls -lt dbi/
> total 264
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 124890 2008-05-28 16:03 all.a
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 ib
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 msql
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 mssql
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 mysql
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 odbc
> drwxr-xr-x 3 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 oracle
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 pg
> drwxr-xr-x 2 rael rael 4096 2008-05-28 15:52 sqlite
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 250 2007-02-03 01:21 all.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 5813 2007-02-03 01:21 Database.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 2658 2007-02-03 01:21 DBIException.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 2500 2007-02-03 01:21 ErrorCode.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 1192 2007-02-03 01:21 Result.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 4194 2007-02-03 01:21 Row.d
> -rw-r--r-- 1 rael rael 6736 2007-02-03 01:21 Statement.d
>
> Hm, ok, we have an 'all.a' file and some .d files, so presumably
> we'll have to install these somewhere. No clue if it actually
> built what I wanted ... There is no install
> target, it appears (thank goodness we're not using make!). So, we
> look for example code on the web site:
>
> Another recommended way to learn how to use D DBI is to look at the
> unittests in the SqliteDatabase file.
>
> When I click on the link:
>
> Internal Server Error
>
> 500 Internal Server Error (No node /trunk/dbi/sqlite/sqlitedatabase.d at
> revision 91<br><p>You can <a
>
href="/projects/ddbi/log/trunk/dbi/sqlite/sqlitedatabase.d?rev=91&mode=path_history">search</a>
> in the repository history to see if that path existed but was later
> removed.</p>)
>
> Oops...
>
> So, I try to run the unit test code. Guessing:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -run dbi/mysql/MysqlDatabase.d dbi/all.a
> -lmysqlclient
> [big fat failure]
>
> Try again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -unittest dbi/mysql/MysqlDatabase.d dbi/all.a
> -lmysqlclient Error: unrecognized switch '-lmysqlclient'
>
> and again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -unittest dbi/mysql/MysqlDatabase.d dbi/all.a
> [... vast spewage ...]
>
> Well, ok, try again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -unittest dbi/mysql/MysqlDatabase.d dbi/all.a
> -L'-L/usr/lib/mysql -lmysqlclient'
>
> and more failures.
>
> Try again:
>
> % dmd -version=Phobos -unittest dbi/mysql/MysqlDatabase.d dbi/all.a
> /usr/lib/mysql/libmysqlclient.a
>
> Well, it gets by the undefined references to mysql internals, but of
> course new undefined errors show up.
>
> [More tail chasing elided here for sake of space.]
>
> At this point, I've wasted, not "20 minutes" as claimed here, but a solid
> 2 1/2 hours of my time.
>
> I do hope others realize that I have gone to the trouble to document this
> not to impugn anyone's motives, but to provide what I think is a valuable
> service to the D community, while at the same time declining to join said
> community due to professional and personal time constraints.
>
> Perhaps I'll return to this effort tomorrow and see if I can kick it along
> any further, but I rather doubt I will, as even if I do get the thing to
> compile, my confidence in the entire body of code is so low that I am
> loathe to recommend that our development group even consider it for
> production-ready code.
>
> Some observations:
>
> 1) Using "yet another make system" to build dbi seems of dubious benefit.
>
> 2) Even the most basic issues do not go well --- the source code wouldn't
> even unzip properly.
>
> 3) If users are to adopt D, then the support universe around it needs to
> be strengthened. Anything more than a few keystrokes' to install
> something is going to turn away potential legions of followers. I'd like
> to see this:
>
> % dinstall dbi
> DBI is now installed for D. Have fun.
>
> And I think that is a reasonable goal to aim for.
>
> As I said, I just don't have the time presently to contribute any more
> than I have to this, and I hope this will help the D community in some
> way.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Bill
Thank you - I will save this for later reference.
--
Lars Ivar Igesund
blog at http://larsivi.net
DSource, #d.tango & #D: larsivi
Dancing the Tango
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