lazy thoughts

[John Reimer]

Hello Andrei,

> John Reimer wrote:
> 
>> Hello Jason,
>> 
>>> bearophile wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My interest for this community and for D is decreasing quickly.
>>>> 
>>> This may be a stupid question, but why is that?
>>> 
>> I'll hazard a guess that it's because some ideas that have originated
>> from the community don't always get recognition by the D team.
>> Later, when the D team independently engineers similar ideas, it is
>> likely to be exasperating to the community members that promoted them
>> in the first place (and worked hard to implement them too).
>> 
> This is a tad imprecise. I'll wait for bearophile to tell if he feels
> he hasn't gotten the credit he believes he deserves before I answer
> this particular point. At any rate, I'll be glad if anyone who does
> feel not having been credited appropriately for contributions to D
> could use this forum to tell about it. I'm big on properly assigning
> credit where credit is due. But I also feel I can't give credit for
> something I know does not reflect the process involved, just so
> they're not unhappy.
> 
>> This is just the way D Language development works, and I'm hoping the
>> effect is unintentional.  Unfortunately, the "snub" effect will never
>> disappear as long as this community refuses to realize that D
>> development is not driven by the community; the community, as of now,
>> mostly operates as a highly tuned sounding board.  By now many people
>> here probably understand the chosen mode of development, but maybe
>> some don't.  It's not optimal... it's just the way it is.
>> Incidentally, this is one of the reasons there is still a divergence
>> between community and team developed libraries (ie Tango and Phobos).
>> 
>> Er... I suppose I've mentioned this before... :P
>> 
> Many people, when they acquire an idea, understand and internalize it
> to the point where they essentially reinvent it. Sometimes I noticed
> this happens to Walter - he hears something without understanding it,
> thinks it through, and comes back with it after having truly
> rediscovered it. I've had to ask him explicitly to grant me credit in
> a few instances, one of I remember right now being the scope
> statements. There are a few others that I even know it's useless to
> ask credit for... such as typelists which got mis-baptized as tuples,
> foam at my mouth notwithstanding :o). Therefore, I'm sure many people
> who must also be feeling Walter (or Bartosz or myself) should have
> credited properly, but weren't friends enough with him/them/us to
> casually ask for it. This can only be frustrating, so by all means do
> tell about it.
> 
> What I'm trying to say is that every person has this and that little
> quirk, and that Walter is one of the most honest and ethical persons I
> have ever met. So if there's any odd snubbing effect or whatnot, that
> is not intentional and could be easily corrected.
> 
> Andrei
> 


Argh... I think I wrote that poorly.  I didn't mean to say that you, Walter, 
or Bartosz were adopting ideas from the community and taking credit for it. 
 I meant to say that, sometimes, the community will come up with an idea 
idependently (perhaps prior to you gents), and it appears to get unrecognized 
amid the posts: the effect is that these ideas/implementations seem ignored. 
 Then you guys end up sometimes /independently/ working on similar ideas 
and implementing them on your own.  That's where the other fella can get 
exasperated. :)  Granted it doesn't happen all the time...

However, concerning the dynamics of D community verses D team development 
of D language design, I stand my ground.  It's just the way it is. :)

-JJR