The D programming language newsgroup should lift its game

[Kyle Mallory]

On 4/1/10 10:51 PM, Justin Johansson wrote:
> Nick Sabalausky Wrote:
>
>> About the only topic that ever does bug me is meta-debates about what types
>> of discussions should or shouldn't be allowed or tolerated. That kind of
>> thing has a tenancy to really damage a group (I've seen it happen) far more
>> than any bikeshed ever will.
>
> Fair enough; really just wanted to know what people thought.
>
> Thanks for your comment.

As a long-time, very occasional lurker-- I don't see how the article and 
specifically the "Demise" of Google Groups related here.  It seemed the 
primary point of discussion in the article was managing spam and the 
hassle in administering the group.  As Walter pointed out, this isn't an 
issue here, thankfully.

Regarding troll-havens, I think there is little you can do about them, 
an especially when many of the troll candidates (at least here on D) are 
still relevant to someone, and often times to many others. 
Specifically, while space/tabs may be a hot, religious topic, it's still 
something that people are passionate about.  In some cases, the results 
of those discussions may raise legitimate concerns (hypothetically 
speaking).

However, I do have two problems with using the newsgroups.

1) Finding a decent reader (though recently, I've slowly migrated to 
Thunderbird), and the steps necessary to configure it, etc. In the past, 
I've posted very very rarely, if ever, in part because it seemed 
troublesome.  While I'm sure this is in part responsible for the lack of 
spam, and maybe directly related to the quality of the posts and topics 
of the group, it is nonetheless a deterrent for newcomers to the 
language. Asking someone to adopt a new piece of (quite possibly, 
unfamiliar) software to someone who is learning a new, possibly first, 
software language is encouraging them to go play with another language 
instead.

2) The accessibility of information is restricted to the search tools 
within the reader (web or otherwise). One of my biggest complains with 
the D movement has been finding relevant information using the tools 
that the rest of the planet is using (ie, Google).  Google searches 
often return results that are months, if not years out of date.

If I google "D Language" the first, top-most link returned is "Intro - D 
Programming Language - Digital Mars", clicking this link and scanning 
for dates to find the currency of the information, I see '2007' as the 
second item on the page, and the first as the release of the Tango book 
(which was also published in 2007).  Following a dozen other links turns 
up similar dates for information 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, and maybe the 
occasional 2009 link.  At first glance, D appears dead.

But I'm determined, to find out more; "if D is dead, what happened to 
it?" The "last update" timestamp on the pages is current, and I see on 
the downloads pages there are various links to various version (though 
none of them are dated), covering a variety of OS and architectures, 
good sign.  The more I dig, the more I find that suggests D is alive and 
strong... but I have to dig.  Finally, I find under the "Archives" 
(where I expect to find the oldest information), links to thousands of 
messages from hundreds of individuals, all actively talking about 'D'. 
Finally, something that is ALIVE, and more importantly, is kicking, 
screaming, walking, and doing its best to start running.  There is a 
life and an energy, a passion, that is found in these forums!  BUT!!! 
You have to be persistent to find it!

If the D community is content to forever be in the back corner behind 
the other kids during the Winter Solstice Festival at school, that's 
fine. But the chances of getting the recognition that it deserves is 
severely diminished.


Kyle