The Next Big Language

[dennis luehring]

Am 19.10.2010 13:29, schrieb bearophile:
> Some of the problems of C++ templates:
> - The syntax is a big problem; if you want to use them to do complex things you need to write lot of ugly code. The lack of basic constructs like static if doesn't help at all.
> - The semantics is not clean, there are several corner cases, that turn template programming into a puzzle solving activity.
> - C++ templates are a functional language, but the C++ compilers usually lacks the normal tools a functional language needs, like a garbage collector and an optimizer both designed for a functional language, and error messages good for a functional language. This makes then slow for the compiler, and at compile-time the compiler burns lot of RAM (they have improved a bit G++ 4.5, as template instantiations are now looked up using hash tables: http://cpptruths.blogspot.com/2010/03/faster-meta-programs-using-gcc-45-and.html  but it's a long way to go).
> - C++ templates are powerful, because templates templates are a peek into the realm of higher order types (kinds), but there is not much typing on the types, so bugs are common. The Concepts were a way to add a type system to template arguments, but it has failed.
> - C++ programmers sometimes don't know much about functional programming. But in the end the complexity of functional programs written with C++ templates is very limited, they are often almost trivial. What makes them hard to write is not that, it's the way you have to write such little functional programs.

and that generates a very bad scenario for "templates"

because if you find (as an newbie)

a small and understandable template code example
-> these code normaly don't show the potential behind templates/generics...

and if you see code that realy profits from using templates/generics
you can't see the profit because its hidden under masses of C++ evil 
syntax orgies