Java > Scala

[Russel Winder]

On Sun, 2011-12-18 at 00:38 -0600, Caligo wrote:
[...]
> In my experience professors only get to choose what to wear to class, lol.

:-)

> It's interesting how many professors choose the same exact text book for
> the same courses they teach.  And it's also interesting how those textbooks
> cost 10 times more than the equivalent book covering the same material.
> Some professors even give out the same exams as other professors in
> different universities.  So, no, I don't think professors get to choose
> either.  It's as if they are given a script, and they have to follow it
> pretty closely (ABET might have something to do with this, idk).  I've had
> many professors who severely rejected the idea of using something else
> besides Java for a given project, and I never understood why (even in
> junior and senior years).

Most students no longer buy textbooks at all.  The bottom has fallen out
of the market.

> Python is just as simplistic as Java, used heavily in the industry, and a
> more elegant language.  So, what's the excuse for not allowing something
> like Python?  oh, maybe because it's an open source project and no
> corporation has direct control over it, no?

Python is simple but not simplistic.  Many educators are now turning to
using Python as the first teaching language.

Python is also used in industry and commerce, so it is not just a
teaching language.  Almost all post-production software uses C++ and
Python.  Most HPC is now Fortran, C++ and Python.

This latter would be a great area for D to try and break into, but sadly
I don't hink it would now be possible.   

[...]
> 
> Well, I disagree because Java in the beginning was a complete failure as a
> language, and they looked for ways to market it.  To them it was a product
> rather than a programming language that was going to help them make money
> and have control over the industry.  Nearly the same exact thing happened
> with Microsoft Windows: an inferior OS that suddenly became popular and has
> helped generate billions of dollars of profit and control over 90% of the
> desktop market share.

I am not sure this analysis works, certainly Java was not a failure from
the outset.  If it were Oracle in 1995 then yes the market-driven
analysis might work, but Sun didn't really work that way at that time.
They were then still a hardware company that did software to sell more
hardware.  Later things changed, cf. JavaCard.  HotJava was certainly an
innovation, but it ultimately failed.  Java switched to  traditional
client and, more effectively, server.  Though you can trace the effects
of HotJava through all the browsers and to HTML5.

> Java being a great teaching language is something that not everyone will
> accept.  Allowing diversity in schools so that students and professors get
> to choose what programming language they want to learn and teach, without
> pressure from the industry, is something that I think most will agree needs
> to happen.

Having been in the vanguard of using Java as a first teaching language
in 1995--1996, I am now very much of the view that to use Java as a
first teaching language now is a gross error.  Second or third language,
no problem, just not the first.

-- 
Russel.
=============================================================================
Dr Russel Winder      t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.winder at ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Road    m: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: russel at russel.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder
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