LLVM 3.0 type system changes

[Caligo]

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:54 AM, spir <denis.spir at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 03/08/2011 03:33 PM, Caligo wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Bernard Helyer<b.helyer at gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 00:15:54 -0600, Caligo wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Bernard Helyer<b.helyer at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:41:39 -0600, Caligo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we really need another D compiler that doesn't work?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Name me a working D2 compiler that doesn't have a front-end based based
>>>>> on DMD. Furthermore, name me an in progress independent implementation
>>>>> further along than SDC. The only candidate is Dil.
>>>>>
>>>>> SDC _will_ be finished, mark my words.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>  Some one who remembers why they don't use the NG that much.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know about dil, but I wonder why you chose not to contribute to
>>>> dil instead of starting a new project.  AFAIK dil is D1.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I know about Dil. aziz is great, the project is great. However, I know
>>> and want to use D2/Phobos. Plus, if I'm going to spend years on a
>>> project, I may as well use stuff I like. Furthermore, SDC didn't start
>>> out as a full compiler. Just playing around with lexing/parsing D. NIH
>>> syndrome, too.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I was aware of your "NIH syndrome", and that's why I have a problem with
>> this.  The main reason you are doing this is to serve your own needs, to
>> make yourself feel good, to earn some kind of recognition, but not to
>> serve
>> the community in any meaningful way.  Even if the project fails, it will
>> look good on your resume because you took the time to develop a compiler.
>> This kind of behavior is very common in the FOSS community, and it has
>> become a disease.  It's the reason why there are thousands of dead
>> software
>> projects that were never completed and maintained.
>>
>> I spoke with Aziz two years ago, and he had the same exact attitude.  His
>> excuse? He hates C++ and he thinks Walter's front end is horrible.  So
>> instead of contributing to ldc, he continued to work on his own compiler.
>> After years of hard work, I doubt many would be willing to call dil a
>> success.  Instead of wasting all his time and energy on dil, Aziz could
>> have
>> contributed to ldc and ldc would have been in a much better shape today.
>> And maybe, just maybe, today we would have a production quality free and
>> open source D compiler that just works.  Good luck trying to compile dil,
>> ldc, etc, let alone have them compile your D code and produce an
>> executable
>> that runs the way it should.
>>
>> I just don't understand why people can't work together.  Life is too damn
>> short.
>>
>
> I for one long for D tools in D. Thank you very much Aziz and Bernard for
> your efforts in this direction. I consider the initial choice of building a
> C++ front-end to be a dead-end. Even more since many D programmers precisely
> come to D out of C++ disgust.
>
> What would you, Caligo, recommand as an initiative for D to have tools the
> D community can easily and happily use *and* contribute to? What would be
> the ideal direction, process, sequence of actions, in your views? How would
> you personly engage in this, according to your own moral stances expressed
> above?
>
>
> Denis
> --
> _________________
> vita es estrany
> spir.wikidot.com
>
>

I want to see people work together and not branch off and do their own thing
when there is no good reason for it.  We don't need to keep reinventing the
wheel, specially when to this day we don't have a viable, production
quality, free and open source alternative to DMD for D2.  GDC could have
been ready a long time ago, but it's not because development is moving very
slow.  So why start a new project and make an announcement about it when you
could be helping out with GDC?
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