[off-topic] Sony releases PS Vita SDK

Paulo Pinto pjmlp at progtools.org
Fri Apr 20 23:11:15 PDT 2012


Just noticed that Microsoft is planning to start using C# for 
systems programming as well

https://careers.microsoft.com/jobdetails.aspx?jid=76831

Who knows what they are planning to do...

On Saturday, 21 April 2012 at 00:09:24 UTC, Alex Rønne Petersen 
wrote:
> On 20-04-2012 15:16, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>> Actually when I read Singularity papers I keep thinking to 
>> myself that D
>> could
>> be Sing#. In the sense that both share many common features.
>>
>> Thanks for the xomb link.
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>>
>> "Alex Rønne Petersen" wrote in message
>> news:jmr1vd$1m25$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>
>> On 20-04-2012 08:43, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>>> Well, C# can also be real systems programming language, see 
>>> Singularity.
>>
>> No, this is actually a common misconception.
>>
>> Singularity does *not* use plain C#. It uses Sing#, which is an
>> extension of Spec# adding message-passing, compile-time 
>> reflection, and
>> safe manual memory management features. Spec# is a version of 
>> C# heavily
>> based on design-by-contract (I'd argue its DbC is far superior 
>> to D's in
>> fact).
>>
>> Plain C# out of the box is not useful for systems-level 
>> programming, and
>> especially not in a kernel.
>>
>>> And native code compilers are also available (Bartok, Mono 
>>> AOT, NGEN).
>>>
>>> D names itself a system programming language, but I am yet to 
>>> see any OS
>>> coded on it. Without system programming examples, it becomes 
>>> just another
>>> application level language.
>>
>> https://github.com/xomboverlord/xomb
>>
>>>
>>> On the other hand I confess this is a very hard task, as most 
>>> of systems
>>> programming
>>> languages that manage to exist as such (PL/I, Ada, C, C++, 
>>> Mac Pascal),
>>> did so because
>>> there was an OS vendor that made use of them.
>>>
>>> Now that I mention this, does anyone know if D is being used 
>>> as research
>>> language in any operating system department in some 
>>> university? I
>>> remember
>>> there were some posts about it long time ago.
>>>
>>> What I see going for D in terms of language features:
>>>
>>> - scope
>>> - compile time metaprogramming
>>> - mixin as a kind of macro mechanism
>>> - inline assembler (this one might be a bit debatable)
>>> - delegation via subtyping
>>> - all available implementations compile straight to native 
>>> code
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paulo
>>>
>>>
>>> "Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message 
>>> news:jmpphn$20s9$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>>
>>> "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp at progtools.org> wrote in message
>>> news:jmpl39$1oa1$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> just wanted to announce that Sony has finally made the new 
>>>> Playstation
>>>> Vita SDK available, as we were discussing some months ago.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.playstation.com/pss/index_e.html
>>>>
>>>> The gamming industry seems to be slowing moving to C#. Would 
>>>> we still
>>>> be able to convince developers to move to D instead?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. I suspect that the movement to C# is somewhat of a 
>>> compromise due to
>>> the fact that C/C++ has been the *only* real systems language 
>>> usable for
>>> most gaming systems. Obviously, something better than C++ is 
>>> needed, and
>>> thanks to the moronic VM/interpreted obsessions from the last 
>>> decade
>>> or so
>>> that rendered most new languages impotent, there was no real
>>> alternative to
>>> C++. So, I suspect, that's why they made the compromise of 
>>> going with C#.
>>>
>>> But D is *real* systems language, unlike C#. And frankly, it 
>>> beats the
>>> snot
>>> out of C#. I'm not just saying that subjectively as D fan: 
>>> Five years ago
>>> (if not less) I considered C# and D tied as my favorite 
>>> languages. But
>>> the
>>> more I used both, the more I got fed up with C#'s dumb 
>>> limitations and
>>> MS's
>>> disinterest in addressing them, and the more I liked D.
>>>
>>> If D can't be made to attract game devs away from C++/C#, 
>>> then I'll loose
>>> what little faith I have left in mainstream games development.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> There's no doubt that D gets very close to being able to 
> replace Sing#. The thing is just that Sing# was designed, from 
> day one, to be OS-agnostic, i.e. compile to plain machine code, 
> and to only rely on the very small HAL in Singularity.




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