DMD - Windows

[Manu]

Just for the record, my post was intentionally excessively inflammatory. I
do like a good IDE vs non-IDE debate! :P

On 7 January 2012 22:22, Nick Sabalausky <a at a.a> wrote:

> So...you agree that it's widespread...and you hate it...Ok, I give up:
> Exactly how is that *not* "overrated"?
>

In that, I don't think most people would rate it 10/10 :)
I'll give it maybe... 7/10. I mean, it's pretty good. It's universally
accepted, definitely stood the test of time, and produced much of the
worlds best software.
But it's old and outdated, refuses to respond to modern updates/requests in
reasonable time, and a lot of modern features they EVENTUALLY put in there
just don't address concerns that, at least my circle of developers, care
about.
Also they tend to just bloat the already bloated as hell standard library!

...and I think most people agree. So no, I don't think it's overrated, I
think it's quite fairly rated :P

But I tend to get the impression that
> there are a lot of "professionals" out there who would completely and
> immediately shun a language based *purely* on a lack of full integration
> with VS. Actually, I think you're one of the people who have pretty much
> told me exactly that, that there are many such professionals who would do
> that.
>

Yup, and I believe that's completely true :)
I expect a huge surge of developers will appear the moment a quality VS
integration exists.

There was a time when I considered D and C# to be tied as my favorite
> languages (And yes, I was using VS.NET for all my C# work). Eventually, I
> became more and more frustrated by trying to work around C#'s limitations
> (Try making a basic, let alone realistically useful, set of generic
> functional tools! Without at least an IArithmetic, it's not realistically
> possible. Or do a simple reinterpret cast without diving into dark corners
> of the API.) It wasn't long before using C# felt like a full-time exercise
> in fighting the damn compiler. But at the same time, D just kept feeling
> more and more natural - even without a fancy IDE.
>

Well I'm certainly not sharing that feeling, at least not yet. I'd like to
think it might get there though with some more time...

So, based on personal experience, I tend to call "bullshit" on the idea that
> C#/VS.NET is highly productive for anything except GUI apps that only need
> the very basic UI controls and don't do a lot under the hood. And ok, maybe
> it's highly productive compared to C++, but that sure as hell isn't saying
> much.
>

I'm sure you've got more experience than me in this area.. All I've ever
made with C# were some nice tools/GUI apps.
The experience was always elegant and enjoyable. My only complaint is that
I created them so much faster than I expected... then I was finished, and
had to get back on to C/C++ work again :(

Honest to god, I'm *more* productive with D and Programmer's Notepad 2 than
> I ever was with C#/VS.NET. And much happier too (at least when I'm
> actually
> coding, anyway ;)) But I never would have discovered that if I had been an
> IDE-snob. Obviously you're not one, as you pointed out you've at least
> tried
> things the other way, too. But from what you describe, it appears that a
> lot
> of people in the industry *are* staunch IDE-snobs.
>

Well you're obviously weird ;)

Oh I'm definitely an IDE snob. I use all the other tools for cross platform
dev, automation, homebrew hobby work, etc, but I can't stand editing code
without a nice editor, the ability to hit ctrl-F7, and even debug,
instantly and seamlessly.
I go miles out of my way to integrate whatever toolchain I'm working with
into VS as best I can. The difference between me and most others like me
is, I go out of my way, whereas most other people, if said integration
doesn't already exist, will just give up and move with something else.

I will definitely admit though, VS2010 was a major step backwards..
Everything suddenly got all slow and buggy.
Infact, I do feel it's been going backwards since VS6... Although I think
2005 was a good year :)
2010 is the best VS yet though when it comes to custom workflow
integration, they are getting better at that, they're just ruining the rest
of the actual IDE in the mean time! >_<
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