[OT] "The Condescending UI" (was: Do we need Win95/98/Me support?)

[Steven Schveighoffer]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:30:45 -0500, Nick Sabalausky <a at a.a> wrote:

> "Steven Schveighoffer" <schveiguy at yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:op.v8l0jzrdeav7ka at localhost.localdomain...
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 06:59:46 -0500, Nick Sabalausky <a at a.a> wrote:
>>
>>> "Walter Bright" <newshound2 at digitalmars.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> Ever since the industry helpfully stopped labeling switches with "on"
>>>> and
>>>> "off" my usual technique is to flip it back and forth until it goes  
>>>> on.
>>>> Is
>>>> it really progress to change from a system where 99% of the world  
>>>> knows
>>>> what it means to one where 2% know?
>>>
>>> I'd say more like "from 99% to 90%". And those who do know can read it
>>> more
>>> easily, at a further distance, with worse eyesight, in worse lighting
>>> conditions, at a breifer glance, etc.
>>
>> This has nothing to do with it.  They could have come up with a  
>> *million*
>> better choices.
>>
>
> So symbols are bad because they chose the wrong symbol?

No, in a weird way I was saying the opposite -- the symbols they chose  
were a bad choice, not the fact that they chose symbols. I've seen much  
better on/off symbols than O and |.  If you have no idea what that means  
in EE terms, then you are just associating on/off with what seems like  
random symbols.  Even a single dot on the "on" side is 10 times better.

>> I think you'd be better off without *any* symbols, or with only a single
>> symbol indicating 'on'.
>>
>
> I think we'll have to disagree on it...

I just stayed in a hotel this past weekend, where the bedside lamp had  
those same O and | symbols.  When I wanted to turn the light on or off, do  
you really think I spent a single microsecond contemplating or  
interpreting what those symbols mean?  Fuck no!  I just flipped the  
switch!  If the switches had no symbols I would get the same result.  The  
symbols added 0 benefit to the switch.

>
>> For my money, the *best* on off switch is the lighted pushbutton, which
>> has the two symbols combined.  I know that it's a power button, and if I
>> see no light, I know it's off.
>>
>
> Until the light burns out (granted, less of an issue with LEDs).

I'm thinking in terms of my PC, I have a pushbutton to turn it on.  When  
it's off, the button is dim, when it's on the button is lit.  How much  
more obvious/simple can you get?

> Also, I *hate* how thanks to modern electronics *everything* in the  
> goddamn
> room has to be lit up like a fucking tree. And they keep making the damn
> things brighter, and brighter, and BRIGHTER...Shit, the light on the USB  
> HDD
> enclosue I just got is so bright it genuinely *hurts* my eyes just to  
> look
> at it.

Such things should be tucked away, but it does not need to be extra  
bright, I agree there.  Some simple common sense would work here.  If it's  
something that's normally not needed for diagnostics, put it internal, but  
visible through a vent or something.  Make it possible to see, but not  
intrusive.

I find a large lack of common sense in most designs today.  You may hate  
to hear it, but the company that usually gets this right is Apple :)  My  
palm phone had an LED that flashed telling me "hey I have a signal  
still!"  My iPhone which is on and working gives me no indication until I  
try to use it that it is still on and connected.  Which is exactly the  
time I need to know.  Who fucking cares if it lost a signal while sitting  
on the table not being used?

> I had to tape tiny pieces of paper over it just to make it tolerable.
> And it's still brighter than I'd like. But I don't want to totally  
> obscure
> it because then I can't see when it's active.
>
> I want *less* lights. Much, much *much* less. Not more.

But you have to admit, it is universal that when a light is on, you know  
something is "on."  It's hard to misinterpret (except for those cursed off  
lights).

>> And the WORST on/off design ever (mandated by regulation, I believe) is  
>> to
>> have a light turn *ON* when something is off.  For example, my TV
>> helpfully has an LED that turns on when it's off, presumably to let me
>> know that it's connected to power.
>>
>
> I *HATE* those "off" lights. I've started to just tape over the fucking
> things with black electrical tape.

Me too :)  We have a TV in the bedroom where the light was so bright, my  
wife couldn't sleep.  So I taped over it.

My new TV has a much dimmer light, but it's still there.  You can  
configure the light to turn off when it's on, but you can't configure it  
to be off all the time.  Again, I think genius politicians who know much  
better than me how to keep my family safe have decided this for me...

-Steve