Qt Creator and D

[Manu]

On 20 September 2013 14:53, F i L <witte2008 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Manu wrote:
>
>> Edit-and-continue is what MS calls the obvious extension from incremental
>> linking where you can re-link your exe while it's running and paused in a
>> debugger, and then continue debugging the current process with the new exe
>> after it links your code changes.
>> it's one of visual studio's most valuable tools.
>>
>
> I see, I didn't know VS was capable of that, but it doesn't sound very
> useful for large projects which take a lot of time to compile (which I'm
> sure is important to you folks at Remedy).
>

Actually, it's about a zillion times MORE useful for large projects. If the
project is big, takes time to reboot/restart, and particularly in games
where you might need to run to a particular part of a level and perform
some bunch of actions to test the thing you're trying to debug in the first
place.

Remember, non make-based build systems typically perform reliable
dependency checking, so if you tweak code in one file, it only compiles
that one file... it's very fast.
Also, incremental linking is precisely that, incremental, so if you only
change one function, it only needs to append one function on the end of the
exe. It's also very fast.
Visual Studio is very fast, this is the main reason why it's awesome, and
the industry standard :)
In a tech company, there's nothing more valuable than your programmers time.

I figured it was something along those lines though, so I tested editing a
> file while stopped on a breakpoint, and then running it and it didn't work.
> It's possible there's some switch i needed to hit, or that it would work
> with Clang/LLDB, but I doubt it (don't quote me on that though, you should
> ask the KDE folks).


It needs a reasonable amount of support from the compiler and presumably
cooperation from the debugger too. If people have never heard of it,
chances are, it doesn't exist :(

 It requires support from various stages in the pipeline and gui, but it's
>> been available for a decade from MS. Surely someone else has bothered to
>> copy it? (assuming it was invented by MS?)
>>
>
> I wouldn't know. You'll probably get a lot more information on what's
> available from asking the GCC, LLVM, and KDevelop IRCs.


Fair enough, but it's weird I should have to. Basic productivity tools like
that should surely be known by users of the tools...
I'll just go and continue to assume that Visual Studio is still the only
viable option on any platform :P

 Debugging is the most important feature an IDE offers by far, and it's only
>> half-implemented if it doesn't support edit-and-continue. Everything else
>> looked good to me in kdevelop. I'll definitely give it a bit more time.
>> Sadly there seems to be no push for D in kdevelop though :(
>>
>
> Make sure to ask someone more informed than me before you write it off,
> but I'm guessing this is an area Linux dev tools are lacking in compared to
> Windows.
>

Mmmm, a concept that I've always found completely amazing actually. How is
it that Linux - truly an OS for developers (certainly not for end-users) -
can consistently be plagued by the worst dev tools out there?
Surely someone in the past 30-40 years get's frustrated at some stage,
looks at what MS have been doing for over a decade, and think "shit, that's
awesome, I'd like that too!".
I'm actually amazed that MS managed to invent it in the first place. You'd
think that Linux should have gotten to it first...

In Gabe Newell's recent talk at LinuxCon, he mentioned Valve is interested
> in make Linux a more friendly environment for game developers. To that end,
> they're working on two different C/C++ debuggers (one for LLVM, I forget
> the other) and I'm guessing they wouldn't feel the need to do that unless
> they where unhappy with the current situation compared to what developers
> expect from Windows. Hopefully their efforts are fruitful in the near
> future.
>

I agree, I'm really looking forward to what they bring to the table. I
expect it's a lot of work though... they have over a decade of catching up
to do.

I've been using Linux and FOSS tools for nearly two years now, and I'm
> surprised I'd never heard about KDevelope until only a few months ago. It's
> a great IDE with a lot of nice features (even has Sublime-style text
> overview) and I hope D gets more attention from the KDev/Kate teams in the
> future.
>

Mmmm, I stumbled across it years ago, the first time I ever tried KDE; it
must have been around feisty, hardy, or intrepid (they're the names that
come to mind).
I thought it looked promising, but it certainly 'wasn't there' at the time.
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