Lost a new commercial user this week :(

[Dicebot via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 01:11:42 UTC, Manu via 
Digitalmars-d wrote:
> Many bug reports and case studies, and often, a persistent 
> voice for
> minority issues that don't get enough attention. My time spent 
> arguing
> in this forum is substantial, and as annoying as it may seem, I 
> think
> if I didn't invest that time, there are things in the past 5-6 
> years
> that would have moved in a different direction, and the 
> language would
> be less attractive to me and my industry as a result.

Yes, I am doing pretty much the same. Does that mean I should be 
more friendly to your lobby of your industry/projects if it 
directly harms my interests? I have been supporting your push for 
better low-level control because it helps me too, not because I 
am kind person. Wasting effort of core contributors on a 
toolchain I will never use is against my interests and makes me 
naturally hostile about it.

> No, I'm not a compiler dev, and I feel like you're trying to 
> discredit
> me because I'm not.

It is exactly what I am trying to do and I am not hiding it.

> I don't want to be a compiler dev. I want to *use* D to make my 
> life
> and work easier for my numerous existing projects and commercial
> activity.

I wish I could do the same - I have never wanted to read compiler 
sources or be part of Phobos dev team. But I do recognize it is 
the only pragmatical way to make things work as per my needs and 
it is better to act according to how things are, not how things 
should have been.

> No other language community has ever demanded I contribute to 
> the
> compiler to be eligible to have my case considered relevant.

It is not about relevance but about priority. If you are willing 
to wait for something like 10 years it will surely be addressed 
at some point. But you demand it being addressed soon, right?

And yes, D is probably least staffed language development project 
among non-hobby projects.

> If I contributed code to DMD, I know it will become my life, 
> and that
> means I'm stepping away from my existing interests and areas of
> development. I'm not interested in doing that.

Then you will have to wait until someone appears who have same 
interests as you but IS willing to start contributing.

> Surely you can understand that my desire to *use* D as a tool 
> is not
> at odds with my desire to continue to work in the fields that I 
> prefer
> to work in?

I am simply telling that D is not ready to be used in your 
industry if you are adamant about such desire. Sad but true. And 
by complaining you don't improve situation as a whole but simply 
force redistribution of already existing set of limited resources.

>> I keep asking you simple question you avoid answering - who 
>> personally
>> should work to address your concerns? Those are all legit 
>> concerns and I
>> doubt anyone would willingly prefer to keep things as they 
>> are. But who will
>> do it if apparently you are the person who needs it most and 
>> you don't want
>> to do it?
>
> Any of the existing dev's that particularly care about the 
> long-term
> success of the language and the health of the ecosystem?
> Perhaps new dev's will be attracted by making the ecosystem 
> inclusive
> of their work and development practice. That tends to be the 
> way open
> source works no?

No, not really. Open source is about people working to fulfill 
their own personal goals and not minding to share resulting code 
if it doesn't mean much added effort. Only few care about things 
like long-term success and only tiny minority will be interested 
in working on ecosystem they don't use.

Motivation you speak about has its place but it is more of a 
"luxury" contribution that only happens after primary concerns 
are dealt with. It just happens that if some open-source project 
is big and mature enough there is a very high chance that your 
problems are already addressed by someone else. That gives a 
wrong impression to those who mostly use open-source and rarely 
contribute.

> I'm glad you work on the compiler, the community needs people 
> like you
> more than anyone...

I don't really work on compiler, sorry :)

> although I'm not sure about your attitude. Right
> now, I'm finding it quite corrosive.

Being all kind and nice is not really in my skill set. I hope I 
have explained better my dislike for this specific set of 
complaints despite the fact I usually tend to support your cause.