More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

[Manu via Digitalmars-d]

On 10 May 2014 16:53, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d
<digitalmars-d at puremagic.com> wrote:
> Am 10.05.2014 08:27, schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d:
>>
>> On 10 May 2014 07:05, Wyatt via Digitalmars-d
>> <digitalmars-d at puremagic.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Friday, 9 May 2014 at 16:12:00 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote:
>>> ...
>>
>> The only option I know that works is Obj-C's solution, as demonstrated
>> by a very successful embedded RTOS, and compared to competition, runs
>> silky smooth. Indeed iOS makes it a specific design goal that it
>> should always feel silky smooth, never stuttery, they consider it a
>> point of quality, and I completely agree. I don't know what other
>> horse to back?
>> ...
>
>
> The problem when comparing iOS with Android, is that we aren't comparing ARC
> with GC.
>
> We are comparing a full OS, which we don't know how much ARC is actually
> used versus standard malloc/new with another OS, which has a
> so-and-so VM implementation, used mostly software rendering until version
> 4.1, and care for low end devices was only done in 4.4.
>
> If we add Windows Phone to the mix, then we have a .NET stack like Android
> (WP7 - GC/JIT) or in its sucessor (WP8)  native code generation for .NET
> (GC) with a COM model for OS APIs (ARC).
>
> Both versions of Windows Phone run smoother that many Android phones, even
> the WP7 ones.
>
> Not saying you are not right, just that we need to look at the whole stack
> when comparing mobile OS, not just GC vs ARC.

Yes, granted. I shouldn't make that sort of comparison. What I am
really trying to do with such comments, is to insist that it is used
as a foundation for a very successful RTOS. To say "it's no good. ARC
can't work. it can never be used as a foundation for a language. but,
cycles!" and whatever, is kind of ignoring the evidence.
It's interesting too that you bring Windows phone into the mix,
because all the WP8 developers I know use microsoft's C++/CX, which
has the new '^' ARC pointer type (as used intensively by the OS).
Why did MS abandon GC? It looks like a similar sort of back-peddling
from their commitment to GC as did Apple, when they started making a
serious play for the embedded market.

C# implies massive GC related issues for realtime and embedded
software. I have lots of colleagues who rant about it regularly, and
my experience from 2 weekends back that I shared earlier in this
thread is a scary slap in the face for me.