Last call for AliasSeq

[Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d]

On Wednesday, 29 July 2015 at 11:16:29 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:
> On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 14:00:29 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi 
> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 13:26:48 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 12:33:35 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi 
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 11:50:09 UTC, Marc Schütz wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, 28 July 2015 at 10:16:21 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but this is unhelpful. All you are saying here is 
>>>>> that "TypeTuple" is bad. Yes, but we already know that. 
>>>>> Everyone agrees on that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The real question is: _What exactly_ is the problem with 
>>>>> TypeTuple? The "Type" part of the name? The "Tuple" part? 
>>>>> The combination? Maybe it's not the name at all, but the 
>>>>> concept, or only some part of its behaviour?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing in your post gives us a clue which kind of name 
>>>>> would be better. In particular, it doesn't show that 
>>>>> `AliasSeq` is any better than `TypeTuple`. So we're 
>>>>> changing it from a bad name to one that could be even 
>>>>> worse, for all we know.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems you and deadalnix actually have useful evidence 
>>>>> that can answer these questions, but neither of you posted 
>>>>> them. Please do!
>>>>
>>>> As already posted in the bike-shedding thread, I'm fine with 
>>>> 'Aliases'.
>>>> Or AliasSeq.
>>>> Or everything that does not have the 'tuple' or 'type' part 
>>>> in it.
>>>> I'm so desperate I would be fine with 'Arguments'!
>>>>
>>>> Please just proceed with something TOTALLY different for 
>>>> this concept
>>>
>>> Please reread my post, and then look at your answer again. I 
>>> asked for evidence, and you posted your opinion.
>>
>> Again, that's not "my opinion", these are facts, collected 
>> everyday in my working room, and I'm just reporting them.
>
> You wrote "I'm fine with ..." and "Please just proceed with 
> something TOTALLY different", and not much else. How is this 
> anything more than opinion? It is probably based on facts, but 
> where is the evidence for these facts?

For sure it's based on facts, but, again and again, I don't have 
the burden to prove anything.

>> The problem lays in the "Tuple" word, and in the "Type" word, 
>> so just avoid them completely.
>
> This is already a conclusion you drew from the experiences in 
> your company. But we have no way of knowing how well these 
> conclusions match reality. I don't understand why it's so 
> difficult just to recount a few of your experiences. I already 
> gave a few examples how this could look:
>
> http://forum.dlang.org/post/ynqxgjekwcgaiywlnmrk@forum.dlang.org
>
> Then everyone can judge for themselves whether your conclusions 
> are justified. Given that deadalnix declared this a "repeatable 
> experiment", I don't think this is asking too much.
>
> And really, I'm genuinely interested in that. I don't keep 
> asking for it just to annoy everyone. And if you can't share 
> that information because it involves business secrets, then 
> please just say so.

Again, and again, you can try it yourself, it's a repeatable 
experiment, as deadalnix said: just try yourself, teach D, and 
take your conclusion.

I'm not a contributor, my day it's already made by 30hrs, I can't 
simply afford the effort.

>> It is up to you, D developers, to take care of our 
>> experiences, as we must teach D, or just ignore them.
>
> We're trying, but you don't share the experiences. You just 
> tell us that you want something changed. But that's like going 
> to a doctor and asking him to operate on you, instead of 
> telling him where you're hurting and giving him the information 
> to decide whether you need surgery at all.

I'm trying to understand why you are the doctor and I am the 
common man.

So, what kind of experience you have, more than me, in teaching D 
to newcomers, turning them in efficient programmers in short time?

I've done my diagnosis, that's my work: I'm a CTO, I earn over 
evaluations of technologies.

Feel free to doubt, and feel free to perform all the examinations 
you prefer, they are repeatable, and take your conclusion.
---
Paolo