D future ...

[Tommi via Digitalmars-d]

> I see a lot of people arguing a lot about D and sorry to say 
> but at times it sounds like a kindergarten. Walter/Andrei are 
> right that updates and changes need to be focused on the 
> standard library.

Improve the standard library!

> Some of the proposals sounds very correct. The library needs to 
> be split. Every module needs its own GIT. People need to be 
> able to add standard modules ( after approval ).

Split the standard library! Forget that no other language does it!

> No offense but where is the standard database library for D? 
> There is none. That is just a load of bull. Anybody who wants 
> to program in any language expect the language to have a 
> standard database library! Not that you need to search the 
> packages for a standard library. I have seen one man projects 
> that have more standard library support then D.

Add to the standard library!

> Its one of the most basic packages. How about a simple web 
> server? A lot of languages offer this by default. It gets 
> people going. vibe.d is not a simple web server. It's not a 
> standard package.

Add to the standard library!

> If you are a low level programmer, sure, you can write you way 
> around it. Despite my PHP handicap i am writing a Sqlite 
> wrapper for my work. I do not use 3th party packages because a) 
> i do not know the code b) the fear that the work will be 
> abandoned. I can excuse (a), when i know its the standard 
> library because there will always be people willing to work on  
> the standard library.

Add to the standard library!

> Documentation:
> --------------
>
> I do not use it.

Improve documentation!

> Editor support:
> ---------------
> Too many need 3th party to do something that D needs to support 
> from itself:
>
> dcd - Used for auto completion
> dfmt - Used for code formatting
> dscanner - Used for static code linting
> ...
>
> This needs to be in the default installation of dmd! It makes 
> no sense that these are not included.

Add to the standard distribution!

> No offense guys, just something that i see in a lot of posts. 
> The hinting at people to add more to the standard libraries. 
> That little push. But frankly, its annoying when nothing gets 
> done.

Don't add to the standard library!

> People complain about x feature. You tell people to add to the 
> standard library or bring the project in. But anybody who has 
> ever read this forum sees how adding things to the language is 
> LONG process and a lot of times idea's get shot down very fast.

Don't add to the standard library!

> For the standard library there is no process as far as i can 
> tell. Experimental at best, where code seems to have a nice 
> long death.

Don't use std.experimental! It's bad!

> Just needed to get this off my chest. The problems with D are 
> LONG TIME known. Anybody who spends some time reading the 
> forums sees the exact same things.
>
> My advice Walter / Andrei: Stop trying to add new things to the 
> code.

Don't add anything anywhere!

> It works. Its not going anywhere. There are no features that 
> you can add, that people can not already do. Maybe it takes a 
> few longer lines but those are not the issues.

Don't add features!

> Focus on improving the other issues like stated above.

Don't work on the compiler or standard library! Don't use your 
skills! Write documentation and learn how to do editor 
integration!

> Maybe also deal with some of the speed  bloat issues. If you 
> ask people to help, give them the motivation to do so.

Work on the speed bloat! Wait, what?

Tell people what do do!

> Bring more projects into D. When you have people like Webfreak 
> making workspace-d, to simply the installation of those almost 
> required editor extensions, it tells you that D has a issue.

Do marketing!

> Ilya's proposals are too extreme and need a middle ground. But 
> he is not wrong.
>
> Seb posted a massive list of modules that can be standard 
> candidates. And the response is more or less ignore it. People 
> who work on Standard libraries are more motivated. Bring  them 
> into the fold. But it seems that they simple get ignored.

Respond to people on the forums!

> Like i said, please work on standard libraries is not the 
> answer.

Don't add to the standard library!

> Why is there no forum part for proposals about libraries that 
> get added to Phobos ( why is it even still called that. Call it 
> standard library and be done with it. It only confuses new 
> people ). The current forum is a pure spam forum.

Work on the standard library! But discuss in a different forum!

> You need a Standard forum. With subbranches for std.xxx, 
> std.xxx, std... Let people talk about improvements there. If 
> people want to add a new branch, let them put up a proposal and 
> do NOT mothball it for months in discussions.

Add more forums!

> Hell, the whole "D Programming Language - Development" forum is 
> so much spam, it becomes almost useless. Its a distraction to 
> post each issue there with 0 responses on 95%.

The forum "D Programming Language - Development" is spam! Even 
though it does not exist!

> Sorry for the long text but as somebody who has been reading 
> the forums for a while now, its just annoying to see some of 
> the bickering.

Stop replaying on the forums!

> But i simply get frustrated seeing the direction where relative 
> simple things get overlooked for more complex features! D 
> already is a great language but it REALLY has issue on several 
> departments. It does not need more boilerplate / expansion, it 
> needs focus!

Add more focus!

> Most of the points that i bring up are not that complex. But it 
> takes a community manager / moderator to keep topics a bit more 
> focused.

More management!

> Not somebody who will go into endless discussions with people ( 
> not naming names ... Andrei ;) ).

Stop replaying on the forums!

> Sorry guys but it feels like you are too technical focused and 
> not thinking about the bigger picture. Suggesting things does 
> not work when nobody gives people the chance to prove 
> themselves.

Don't tell people what to do!

> Give people the ability to add more to std.experimental.

Do use std.experimental! It's good!

> Give it its own forum part.

More forums!

> Give people actual hope that there work can be added.

Add to the standard library!

> I have seen several ex-D programmers, who complained about D 
> regarding issues like this. If D wants to be a community 
> project, then act like a community project. Because now, its 
> just a contribution project where some people have easier 
> access to add stuff and other walk against a brick wall of 
> months ( and give up ).

Let everyone add to the standard library!

> Its late... already spend almost two hours writing this, that i 
> was able to spend on writing actual code. And i am going to 
> take a break from reading this forum, it sucks the life out of 
> people and they spending all the time on bickering over details 
> and eventually not getting a darn thing done. Already 
> overworked at work + my own D project.

Half of the paragraphs contradict the other half. Walter must 
headbutt himself in the face reading this.