TIOBE December 2015 - D rose 5 positions

[Joakim via Digitalmars-d]

On Sunday, 3 January 2016 at 16:19:49 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
> On Sunday, 3 January 2016 at 15:58:21 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> Github has the same problem, btw.  I recently spent some time 
>> going through the top repositories in this list, and it's 
>> surprising how many are miscategorized as D, despite having 
>> the source:
>
> Yep, Github isn't neutral, but it is the best source for 
> trending information I know of, although enterprise 
> technologies (Microsoft, Oracle etc) are underrepresented there.

It's more than not being neutral: I pointed out that github 
suffers from similar categorization errors to the ones you list 
below.  But yes, github stats are really only good for languages 
used in open source, and OSS is still a small fraction of all 
software written.

> But search engine bias is worse I think. For instance, when I 
> search for javascript technologies I never use the phrase 
> "javascript". I often search for the specific API since 
> JavaScript is so popular that the APIs themselves already get 
> good ranking! But when I search for info on C++ I usually start 
> with "c++" in every single search, since C++ isn't as popular 
> as JavaScript.
>
> Also ranking a search "rust tutorial" fails because Rust 
> already have _very_ good standard documentation, so fewer 
> people need to search for it.
>
> In one instance I also noticed that the search for "d tutorial" 
> matched "d-link tutorial" (how to set up a router). :-) And 
> even "d vitamin tutorial", or something like that. :-D
>
> I think the big swooping "automated data collection" lists are 
> way too noisy to be useful. The timeline on some specific 
> phrases on Google Trends do say something though.

Those are definitely real issues with those methods, no question.

>> I don't know much about Docker: is most of their stack built 
>> on Go, as opposed to a few key components?  Also, they value 
>> their
>
> If you look at github, you'll see that several of the high 
> ranking Go projects are related to Docker, Kubernetes and such. 
> So Go seems to become a defacto replacement for C in areas 
> where C isn't really neededspeed isn't crucial (e.g. 
> configuration etc).
>
> Not so strange, for companies that deals with a specific 
> application area it makes sense to standardize on one language.

Are you stating that Docker is built on Go or suggesting it would 
make sense if they were?  Sounds like the latter.

> So, commercial uptake appears to be driving Go adoption in the 
> area of "cloud deployment" of various kinds?

I'm actually glad D isn't jumping on a hot trend like "cloud," as 
they're usually fads.  This goes for Sociomantic and ad-tech too: 
they could just be in a hot field and really not mean much for 
the long-term future of D.  Better to focus on making the best 
language you can, and people will find uses for its unique 
strengths.

On Sunday, 3 January 2016 at 16:24:17 UTC, Ola Fosheim Grøstad 
wrote:
> On Sunday, 3 January 2016 at 16:10:49 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> I have no real opinion on the validity of TIOBE
>
> That's sad!!!

Heh, why should I spend any time thinking about it whatsoever?  
I'm not interested in jousts about programming languages.

>> but I think you overrate the importance of github and 
>> overestimate use of javascript.  Of course, there's no good 
>> way to settle that question.
>
> Actually there is. If you look at businesses that use 
> Javascript every single small community has javascript 
> programmers, one way or the other. Be it a web site company or 
> a advertising company. All these businesses that dabble with 
> Javascript one way or the other account for way more employees 
> than the focused software engineering companies.

Sure, because you're lumping all the non-Javascript employees 
from any companies that "dabble with javascript" and contrasting 
that number with the companies that don't use it all.  Since 
practically every company has a website that likely uses a little 
javascript, that's trivially true, yet completely irrelevant.

If you were able to compile something like billable hours for 
javascript, it would do well, but nowhere near the top.  
Unfortunately, that key is not available under the lamppost we 
have: TIOBE. :)

> A quick search for open positions in norway shows that there 
> are twice as many matches for "javascript" than for "c++". And 
> usually such positions are more easy to fill.

C++ has been retreating into a niche, along with other 
AoT-compiled languages, even TIOBE shows that in its graph of C++ 
buzz dropping significantly over the last decade.  But javascript 
is primarily a frontend language on a single platform, web apps, 
it will never get "close to the top" of the programming language 
heap.