D needs to get its shit together!

[Moritz Maxeiner via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, 16 June 2017 at 11:50:20 UTC, Wulfklaue wrote:
> On Friday, 16 June 2017 at 10:55:04 UTC, Moritz Maxeiner wrote:
>> Everything *I* need works well enough (and I'm fairly 
>> convinced it is the same for the majority of D users, though 
>> that is speculation). If you want something fixed, do it 
>> yourself or pay someone to do it.
>
> Well, i do not have the time.

Then hire someone.

> Want me to donate?

Straw man. Donations are not the same as paying for a specific 
service (i.e. no contractual obligations).

> Does that solve the issue.

Yes.

> No ... because there is no clear infrastructure in place to 
> actually hire people to work on the language and the 
> environment.

Claiming a solution does not work because it's hard to use does 
not help your cause.
If you are interested in donations, there is such infrastructure, 
it's called the D Foundation.
If you are interested in contract work, you are correct, there is 
no such infrastructure;
however, there not being a ready made infrastructure for hiring 
does not preclude you from finding someone yourself, e.g. through 
the accounce newsgroup.

>
> Pointless to even mention this, it like all the other 
> discussions like this. People mention issue. Blow back. Heated 
> discussions. And the people who complain give up. Those that 
> point fingers continue living in there bubble and ... nothing 
> changes or improves.

You are deliberately inflaming a previously neutral subthread 
with hyperboles and a personal attack.
The matter remains simple: If you (or anyone else) has an issue, 
it's good (as I stated) to raise awareness for it; but if you 
want something done and don't want (or can't) do it yourself, you 
have to either convince someone else that your time is worth more 
than theirs, or you have to pay someone to deal with it.

>
> I do not have a issue donating money. In the process of setting 
> up a company and maybe can support D from that angle. But i do 
> have a issue when people react like this whenever people with 
> good intention get blow back.

Again, you are deliberately using inflammatory speech against 
someone who has given the OP a rational response as to why I 
think doing *only* this won't help his cause.

> The original poster his topic title is a bad choice but his 
> points are not.

Straw man. I never said anything on those points.

> Just reading the history on the mail group and you see so many 
> time the same issues.

In the very post of mine you quote I write about stating this 
every time these kinds of issues pop up (which strongly implies 
that it does so not rarely).

> And the exact same responses.

I'm not sure why that bothers you. It would be strange to me for 
the same kind of issue in the same context to receive a different 
response.

> And the exact same nothing happening because people give up.

That is the crux of having limited human resources in a volunteer 
project.

> [...] But for some reason i can not help to feel that some 
> people are almost against this, the attitude here simply STINKS 
> when it comes down to issues. The whole "it works for me, so 
> how dare you complain" is really demotivating and frankly 
> scares people away.

This is the third time you are being intentionally inflammatory 
in a previously neutral correspondence, even utterly twisting my 
post into something that simply is not there.
What I wrote boils down to "It works for me, so don't expect me 
to fix it for you for free. I think it is the same for most 
others here". If that is demotivating to you, I am forced to 
wonder if you consider your time objectively worth more than that 
of others.

>
> Hey, it works for me "not dumb dumb" but its the wast of time 
> figuring out things that are much more easy in other languages.

Fourth time you are being inflammatory, even going as far as 
completely inventing statements I have not made.

> But that also means anybody coming with limited programming 
> knowledge or no linux knowledge and wants to do more then a 
> "hello world", will run into the exact time wasting issues.

And if that bothers you enough to take action, your courses are 
*still* the following:
- Do the work yourself
- Hire someone to do the work
- Convince someone that their time is better spend on dealing 
with this than on whatever it is that interests them

>
> But please, do shoot the messengers. Like that will help.

Fifth time you are being intentionally inflammatory and trying to 
twist my post.
I informed the OP that I think it unlikely this will convince 
someone to choose to spend their free time on this, than on 
something else. It boggles my mind how you could possibly twist 
that into "shooting the messengers".

>
> I am already far into my project with D but at the same time i 
> can not help getting this nagging feeling that D has major 
> issues beyond its base language. Mostly its community and 
> structure. I see less of this with for instance Rust despite 
> being a WAY younger language and audience. Its almost like D is 
> stuck in the past, in some kind of pre-2000 C++ attitude.

No, it's almost like Rust has a global player with its software 
on a significant share of human interfaceable internet devices 
rigorously pushing for it, pouring time, money, and a huge 
preexisting viral fan base into it. Like the Mozilla foundation.

> Like i said, maybe its me. D as a base language works but for 
> such a old language ( lets be honest about that ), its a real 
> struggle on the other areas beyond the language.

Age of a PL (beyond some initial dev time) has little effect on 
the viability of its ecosystem.
An even if, while D1 dates to around 2001, and Rust to around 
2010 (which is not a particularly long time in the first place 
when compared to the competitors C and C++), D2 (which due to 
it's several deep changes can be considered a different language) 
dates to around 2007, which is a negligible difference to Rust.