[OT] mobile rising

[Tony]

On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 at 09:34:39 UTC, Joakim wrote:


>
> I see, so your claim is that MS, Nokia, HP, Sony, all much 
> larger companies than Apple or Google at the time, could not 
> have countered them even on a lucky day.  I wonder why this is, 
> as they certainly had more money, you don't believe they're 
> that bright? :)

Google bought Android from a startup of sharp programmers. There 
are only so many mobile operating systems and operating systems 
are not easy to develop. Jobs got back into Apple because they 
had failed in an attempt to replace OS 9 and Jobs had a talented 
software team and an OS from his failing Next company. Nokia had 
a big internal effort to replace Symbian (which had multi-tasking 
from the beginning, unlike iOS) due to some flaw that it could 
only handle 640 x 360 screens (bigger than the first couple 
iPhone generations). But one effort failed and another, based on 
Linux came too late to survive being cut at the same time the new 
CEO from Microsoft announced that Symbian would be discontinued 
and replaced by Windows Mobile.



> On Wednesday, 8 November 2017 at 07:04:24 UTC, Tony wrote:
>> On Monday, 6 November 2017 at 08:33:16 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The vast majority of users would be covered by 5-10 GBs of 
>>> available storage, which is why the lowest tier of even the 
>>> luxury iPhone was 16 GBs until last year.  Every time I talk 
>>> to normal people, ie non-techies unlike us, and ask them how 
>>> much storage they have in their device, whether smartphone, 
>>> tablet, or laptop, they have no idea.  If I look in the 
>>> device, I inevitably find they're only using something like 
>>> 3-5 GBs max, out of the 20-100+ GBs they have available.
>>
>> You are making an assumption that people want as much storage 
>> for a combo phone/PC as they do for only a phone. You need to 
>> also check how much storage they are using on their PCs.
>
> You need to read what I actually wrote, I was talking about 
> laptops too.  I don't go to people's homes and check their 
> desktops, but their laptops fall under the same low-storage 
> umbrella, and laptops are 80% of PCs sold these days.
>
OK, I see you did mention laptops. It isn't my case and I find it 
hard to believe that people are being sold ever larger disk 
drives when they can survive with a 32GB flash rom.

>>>> I never made any previous claim about what IDEs are being 
>>>> used. The only time I previously mentioned an IDE was with 
>>>> regard to RemObjects and Embarcadero offering 
>>>> cross-compilation to Android/iOS with their products.
>>>>
>>>> "There is a case to be made for supporting  Android/iOS 
>>>> cross-compilation. But it doesn't have to come at the 
>>>> expense of Windows 64-bit integration. Not sure they even 
>>>> involve the same skillsets. Embarcadero and Remobjects both 
>>>> now support Android/iOS development from their Windows (and 
>>>> macOS in the case of Remobjects) IDEs."
>>>>
>>>> That was to highlight that those two compiler companies have 
>>>> seen fit to also cross-compile to mobile - they saw an 
>>>> importance to mobile development. It wasn't about what IDEs 
>>>> are best for mobile or even what IDEs are being used for 
>>>> mobile.
>>>
>>> If you look back to the first mention of IDES, it was your 
>>> statement, "Good luck selling game developers on using D to 
>>> develop for Android, when you can't supply those same game 
>>> developers a top-notch development environment for the 
>>> premier platform for performance critical games - Windows 
>>> 64-bit."
>>>
>>> That at least implies that they're using the same IDE to 
>>> target both mobile and PC gaming, which is what I was 
>>> disputing.  If you agree that they use completely different 
>>> toolchains, then it is irrelevant whether D supports 
>>> Windows-focused IDEs, as it doesn't affect mobile-focused 
>>> devs.
>>
>> My statements quoted didn't mention IDEs and they didn't imply 
>> IDEs. What was implied was the initial line in the first post 
>> "* better dll support for Windows". My assumption is that game 
>> developers (or just developers) work on multiple OSes. If you 
>> want them to use a language - like D - they should find it 
>> compelling to use on all their platforms.
>
> Your statement was made in direct response to my question, "why 
> spend time getting D great Windows IDE support if you don't 
> think Windows has much of a future?"

What does IDE support refer to? You didn't say "get good Windows 
IDEs". In any event, I was talking about DLLs and related Windows 
issues that you would encounter using Vim and D.

> I've already said I don't think there's much overlap between 
> mobile and PC games, the markets are fairly disjoint.  The top 
> mobile games are never released for PC and vice versa.

I never said the games have overlap. I said the developers have 
overlap.


> As for dll support, that was not mentioned at all in the OT 
> thread to which you were responding, and you never called it 
> out.

Never called what out? You were saying that Windows was going 
down by 99% in some unstated timeframe and I challenged that 
notion. The first and second posts in this thread mention DLL 
support and I seem to recall people talking about other issues 
after that besides DLL support - and not about IDEs. You need to 
clearly demarcate your "OT thread" in a thread and put what 
context you will consider valid in it.


> As for flat UIs, you really should be aware of the effect your 
> beloved Metro has had:
>
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_design
>
I don't see any relationship between that iOS picture in the Wiki 
article and Metro. The idea is RESIZABLE, LIVE tiles. Not effects 
to make them look 3D or not.