Microsoft Project: Verona

[Paulo Pinto]

On Sunday, 8 December 2019 at 22:50:39 UTC, IGotD- wrote:
> On Sunday, 8 December 2019 at 12:57:27 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>>
>> I imagine that was indeed the case, if you look between the 
>> lines from Joe Duffy's presentations on Midori.
>>
>> https://www.infoq.com/presentations/csharp-systems-programming/
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVm938gMWl0
>>
>> At the end of his Rust keynote, he mentions that even after 
>> being showed how well it worked, Windows Dev team was quite 
>> sceptical of it.
>>
>
> You don't need to read between the lines for that, as he 
> explained it explicitly. Their attempt with Rust was a long 
> term success but the developers weren't particularly keen on 
> Rust. The developers felt that they were battling the compiler 
> and simple stuff fast was difficult.
>
> Actually, programming C++ is really dirt simple if you stick 
> normal object oriented class like programming. It's when you 
> start to dig into templates and ugly libraries C++ starts to 
> become difficult. For simple programming Rust is more difficult 
> than C++ as there is a bigger design burden on the programmer. 
> The programming constantly have to think about various corner 
> cases that occur often. Just thinking about there are three 
> types of closures for example (D has one). Rust is full of 
> these special cases which is starting to become hard to 
> remember and are experienced as annoying. It just deteriorates 
> the programmer experience.
>
> What Verona can do better is to clean up all these families of 
> different special types and corner cases to relieve the 
> pressure from the programmer.

Rust?

Midori used System C# also known as M#, which has a tracing GC, 
with support for value types, low level allocation, basically 
similar to D capabilities.

Even though it failed to impress Windows team, at least we got 
some of those features in C# 7.x, 8 and a couple more might land 
on 9.

Oh and the .NET Native native experiment (to be merged into main 
.NET as per .NET 5 roadmap).

However, most of this stuff is far from what Midori was trying to 
achieve.

I already mentioned in multiple replies that MS is already using 
Rust in production.