Could D have fit Microsoft's needs?
margo2 at margotics.des
Mon Jul 22 23:16:26 UTC 2019
On Sunday, 21 July 2019 at 00:22:11 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 7/18/2019 5:12 PM, Mike Franklin wrote:
>> ... and D could complete better with Rust if it had
>> @safe-by-default and statically-check ownership/borrowing
>> mechanism as Walter recently proposed.
> D has some huge advantages over Rust.
> For example, D has a familiar syntax and jargon. For another,
> you'll be able to move to memory safety incrementally with D,
> you won't have to rewrite your app from the start.
If you can not convince a company like Jetbrain, to support a
official D language plugin, then those few advantages do not rack
up to much. Rust language plugins, be it vscode, jetbrain
products or other ides are well developed allowing for more
There is a reason why some major companies look at Rust for
replacing C++ and not D. No matter how much advantages you think
D has, it can be said, that without the actual support system to
convince the companies and developers, D will simply keep
trampling on the same spot.
Recently i needed some specific crates for a Rust project, i
looked over at D. More then half the stuff simply did not even
exist for D.
D package growth is like 1 per day, with Rust growing by 25 per
day. Its easy to see not just momentum diference but also how
easier it is to get going with a project in Rust ( and half a
dozen other languages ) compared to D.
Shows the exact reason why D has issues. Stand alone D is usable
but the moment you need specific packages or tools, D can not be
considered a main application language.
And no, we do not have the time to write packages for D, when we
can find perfectly good quality and supported packages for Rust (
and half a dozen other GC languages! ).
Stop confusing your language with its eco system. Nobody gives a
darn about a language if everything around it is limited and
frustrating. Its like having a 15" dong but having the face of a
mull. Sure, you can be proud of that one thing but its not going
to get you the girls ( or guys, we do not discriminate :) ) if
the rest is lacking.
Language: A- ( some stuff is simply in conflict and half
Library: C+ ( many past issues that haunt it today, ... )
Plugins: D- ( missing even basic plugins, low activity/support
for many plugins, ... )
IDE Support: C- ( Only one really good supported IDE plugin, rest
is basically C level, limited choice )
In other words: Stop being so darn proud of the language and
realize that the language without the rest is simply not accepted
for mainstream support. Its 2019 and beyond a few companies and
some side project, nobody really gives a darn about D. Rust
simply moves faster, has a better Eco system, better support, ...
So unless you plan on trowing a truckload of money into hiring
developers to speed up the development of those issues point,
your simply no match for Rust.
Its frankly pathetic whenever a popular blog comes up about Rust
as a potential choice for a big company, that people here think
"but we are also a choice, why does nobody really look at us".
In essence, you had your chance for almost 20 years and wasted
it. Resulting in the new kid on the block to run circles around
you. Its like watching people who's football team that never left
3th league, think its going to be like those other guys. Sorry if
it sounds cruel.
There is only 2 ways to fix this: Lots of money and a big daddy,
preferably both. If you can not go that route, your simply going
to be stuck forever going at a snails speed, surviving on
volunteers time, thinking you will convince those big guys. While
everybody else leaves you behind in the dust.
Walter, you remind me why some companies never become a success.
Great ideas, genius, hard working but geniuses do not become
fortune 500's without the marketing sales pitch to convince
people to put the money into your company, for a (potential)
payout years down the line.
Any talk about code refactoring, library splitting, etc is a wast
of hot air. Again, sorry to say this but its like looking at a
Echo Chamber whenever i past by here.
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