Nim programming language finally hit 1.0

[Chris]

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 at 11:59:08 UTC, mipri wrote:
>
> The rhetorical value of hyperbolic language like this is that 
> it's so
> rare in these forums. Everyone's just so peppy and ra-ra about 
> D all
> the time that it's very startling to see any dissent.

I know that D is "the best language in the world" and anyone who 
points out serious flaws is a heretic. But thanks for pointing it 
out.

>
> Hi. I don't know what you're talking about, because I've done
> exactly this with dub, but I have some guesses.
>
> Option #1: Python and Java are super popular, so anything you 
> happen
> to need will probably be downloadable and immediately usable. 
> "People
> don't use D because people don't use D."
>
> Potential technical answer to option #1: use D. By this measure
> you'll contribute to people using D, and by an increment solve
> the problem of people not using D.

I used D for years. Got cured though. I think you get it only 
once. After that, you are immune.

> Option #2: with Python and Java it's much more common for tools 
> to be
> written in only Python and Java, and to only depend on other
> pure-Python and pure-Java libraries, so that when you want 
> something
> you can just download a bunch of Python or Java code and it 
> works.
> With D you'll more often hit a requirement to install some 
> system
> libraries, and then you have to look that up, which is a pain.

In other words, a mess of dependencies.

> Potential technical answer to option #2: teach dub about common 
> OS
> package systems so that it can A) suggest OS dependencies, and 
> B)
> install OS dependencies. "I noticed that the binary I just 
> built is
> linking to these libraries, because I ran ldd on it. Then I did 
> a yum
> whatprovides /path/to/libraries and I found some RPMs. Do you 
> want to
> add those as CentOS 7 OS dependencies for this project? This 
> won't
> prevent anyone from installing your library, but it will make
> installation much easier on CentOS 7."
>
> Option #3. There are a bunch of technical inconveniences with 
> dub that
> you won't describe because you've mentioned them before and 
> nothing
> happened and now everyone agrees that D has an atrocious 
> ecosystem,
> right?

There are loads of D users who dislike dub (I always used it for 
convenience though). I don't know if it's dub itself or just the 
fact that those who dislike it won't accept anything but make 
files. I never cared, tbh. The docs used to be hard to read, 
though, I don't know if that has improved.

> In the third case, sorry for intruding on your established 
> consensus,
> but could you at least mention an actual problem with dub when 
> it
> comes up? Any one of the actual problems, as opposed to the fake
> problem of "you can't just download D stuff and use it the way 
> you
> can with Python."

To be clear, dub is NOT "D's ecosystem", it's a tiny part of it, 
and most issues are not related to dub but to broken packages due 
to compiler upgrades and other toolchains. For example, is there 
a tool to streamline D integration into Android and iOS (cf. 
Nim)? Where are the plugins for the major IDEs? D doesn't care, 
but it sure won't scale this way.