Nobady is going to complain about that...

[Arine]

On Thursday, 23 April 2020 at 05:49:58 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> On Thursday, 23 April 2020 at 02:05:00 UTC, Arine wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 18:21:13 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 14:54:58 UTC, welkam wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK50z_gUpZI&t=1321
>>>>
>>>> I think people in this forum will find these 11 secs as 
>>>> amusing
>>>
>>> Meanwhile in real world:
>>>
>>> https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/Programming/UnrealArchitecture/Objects/Optimizations/index.html
>>
>>
>> They aren't using a generic garbage collector. They built a 
>> system specifically designed for their purposes. Without a 
>> doubt, they spent a lot of time optimizing that. And it 
>> definitely doesn't have to do as much as a generic GC that 
>> allocates memory. There only N amount of objects and they can 
>> only interact in a specific way. You don't have to scan memory 
>> and inaccurate accept a long type as a reference to a section 
>> of memory.
>>
>>> https://unity3d.com/partners/microsoft/mixed-reality
>>>
>>> https://stadia.dev/intl/de_de/blog/unity-production-ready-support-for-stadia-now-available/
>>>
>>> https://developer.nintendo.com/tools
>>>
>>> https://developers.google.com/ar/develop/unity
>>
>> Unity uses C#, but at its core it still uses C++. Sadly that 
>> portion is closed source. As well they use only a subset of C# 
>> which is severely crippled and effectively disables almsot 
>> every GC reliant feature.
>>
>>> https://www.cryengine.com/tutorials/view/programming-and-project-guides/c-programming#
>>
>> Not that familiar with cryengine, but I imagine they probably 
>> copied Unity here as they didn't originally use C#.
>>
>>
>>> https://gapid.dev/about/
>>
>> I've used gapid in the past, its a piece of garbage that 
>> doesn't work right. I've had more success with Render Doc 
>> https://renderdoc.org/.
>>
>>
>>> So yeah, those guys on the videos are entitled to their 
>>> opionion on how GCs are bad, yet Google, Nintendo, Microsoft, 
>>> Epic, Crytech seem to be doing quite fine with them.
>>
>> Yah posting a bunch of links to things you don't understand or 
>> how they work. You've just given all good examples against a 
>> generic GC used for memory management.
>
> Quite on the contrary, while deconstructing every single 
> example, you miss the point, yes some of them do use C++ 
> underneath, yet what the large majority of  developers are 
> writing makes use of some form GC, reference counted, tracing, 
> simple, advanced tech, whatever.

For your UE4 example, that wouldn't be possible if they had used 
a GC only language like Java. I don't think you realize what you 
are agruing here. You are just relying on a false equivalency as 
you were with your examples. People aren't against simple, 
advanced tech, or whatever. UE4 is the perfect example of what 
can be achieved because you don't have control taken away from 
you. Your conflating GC with a multitude of ideas and then 
saying, oh because a GC is simple, advanced tech, or whatever 
then the people against GC must all be against every possible 
conceivable idea that could be categorized as simple, advanced 
tech, or whatever.

> The world moves forward, with all major graphics engine and OS 
> vendors shipping tooling that to a certain extent makes use of 
> GC based technologies.

You linked one engine that uses C#, and you just provided 
multiple links to the same engine. Somehow you translate that to 
"all major graphics engines"?

> All major desktop and mobile OSes make use of it in some form, 
> and then there is the Web as the biggest OS out there using a 
> GC enabled language.
>
> It is the anti-GC crowd that doesn't understand that they 
> eventually will be sitting in a city full of tumbleweeds.

The programmers crowd that still write using language don't 
understand that eventually they'll be sitting in a city full of 
tumbleweeds. There will always be a need for none GC, as long as 
there is a need for programmers. Hell there's already computers 
that are doing programming that programmers wouldn't ever be able 
to do.