Preventing another 1028
IGotD-
nise at nise.com
Thu May 28 13:01:43 UTC 2020
On Thursday, 28 May 2020 at 00:05:19 UTC, Bruce Carneal wrote:
> DIP 1028 is unsound.
> DIP 1028 is deeply unpopular.
> DIP 1028 is ridiculous.
>
> How do we lessen the likelihood that DIPs like 1028 are
> accepted in the future?
>
> DIP 1028 survived veto because the DIP author had a very low
> bar to jump over; he only had to convince one person that
> silently and globally calling extern(C) safe was sane. Here
> are some ways to raise that bar:
>
> 1) Appoint an at-large language maintainer (LM) that steps in
> whenever either of the two LMs author a DIP.
>
> 2) Appoint an "emeritus" LM that can veto DIPs but is not
> required to actively approve them. Andre?
>
> 3) Increase the number of LMs.
>
> 4) Some combination of the above.
>
> If you have other, preferably simple, ideas on how to improve
> the DIP process, please chime in. We may hit on something that
> could actually work.
>
> If the LMs refuse amendment, and the governing docs provide no
> relief, DIP process dysfunction will remain a "vote with your
> feet" issue (the disaffected bleed away, growth stagnates, the
> community becomes ever more cynical and withdraws from DIP
> commentary, ...).
>
> Finally, the elephant in the room: The DIP process would work
> much much better if Walter could somehow learn to communicate
> effectively in the forums. Crucially, Walter often says that
> he believes he's answered a concern when the other, often
> highly respected, party most definitely believes he has not.
> Evidently it requires the patience of Job and the clarity of
> Timon to get through to Walter. Even that is not always enough.
I think one of the biggest problems is the expectations of the
management model. DIP 1028 has issues where a lot of people
disagreed and valid criticism, yet it was accepted on the first
round. Is this a community development model? Perhaps D should go
towards a committee model instead. This might be a better model
for Walter and those who has a clear vision of how D should
evolve, despite unpopular changes.
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