[OT] The Usual Arithmetic Confusions

[Paul Backus]

On Friday, 4 February 2022 at 04:28:37 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> On 2/3/2022 8:25 AM, Paul Backus wrote:
>> The inconsistency is the problem here. Having integer types 
>> behave differently depending on their width makes the language 
>> harder to learn,
>
> It's not really that hard - it's about two or three sentences.

Two or three sentences here, two or three sentences there--it's 
not much on its own, I agree, but all these little things add up.

And the fact is, C and C++ programmers *do* find these rules 
difficult to learn and remember in practice. That's why articles 
like the one that started this discussion are written in the 
first place.

> There's really no fix for that other than making the effort to 
> understand 2s-complement.
[...]
> Trying to hide the reality of how computer integer arithmetic 
> works, and how integral promotions work, is a prescription for 
> endless frustration and inevitable failure.

2s-complement is "the reality of how computer integer arithmetic 
works," but there is nothing fundamental or necessary about C's 
integer promotion rules, and plenty of system-level languages get 
by without them.