[Robotgroup] Robots, Groups, Art, Technology

[Leslie Filip]

Glenn,

As always I appreciate your thorough and thoughtful posts. Thank you.

Les


On Sep 8, 2007, at 10:05 AM, Glenn Currie wrote:

> Alex Iles, Brooks Coleman, Dave Santos, and Bill Craig worked on some
> projects at a "hands on" science center called "Discovery Hall".   
> One of the
> founders of Discovery Hall,  was professor Jack Turner, who was a
> physics professor at U.T.
>
> The Discovery Hall building was on Congress Ave, and had served as an
> office building, a bus station etc.  When this collection of  
> individuals
> labeled
> by others at Discovery Hall, as "The Robot Group", were asked to leave
> the building at,
> what seemed to be an unreasonable hour, they walked to a near by
> diner - Ted's Greek Corner at 417 Congress Ave.
>
> The food at Ted's was not all that great, but coffee would not kill  
> you
> (immediately), so
> the collection of individuals continued to meet and stuff their  
> faces while
> discussing projects.  There was no set time or set agenda - this  
> suited this
> collection of individuals well.  They had more than enough  
> meetings, held
> as specific times, with endless "Power Pointless" slide  
> presentations, where
> more effort was put into a glitzy presentation, than into the content.
>
> By the way, the guy that ran the diner was Greek, his name was not
> "Ted", he was a hard working, hard nosed business man, and he
> was too cheap to change the sign.
>
> The lack of a set time and agenda was fine with some people, others  
> just
> didn't know how to deal with it and found it frustrating.  Without  
> a set
> time or agenda, this collection of individuals built a lot of cool  
> stuff.
>
> The world is full of organizations that have form but little  
> substance.
> People
> get used to this and come to believe this is the only way things  
> can be
> accomplished.
> At meetings, many tend to fall into using a half assed version of
> "Roberts Rules of Order",
> to conduct the meeting.
>
> Do you have a copy of Roberts Rules of Order?  Next question, have  
> you ever
> read it?  Some organizations have in their official documents a
> statement that
> meetings will be conducted under Roberts Rules of Order.  Roberts  
> Rules
> of Order are the ultimate in form over substance.  This is where  
> ideas like
> "I make a motion that ...", and "I second the motion...", comes  
> from, they
> are certainly not in the bylaws of The Robot Group Inc.
>
> These "early members", were individuals, that were seen in close
> proximity on several occasions,
> so the people at Discovery Hall started calling them "The Robot Group"
> because
> humans tend to name things as a kind of short hand.  Pigeon holing
> people and
> groups of people, is a simplistic method of modeling things.  In
> slapping a label
> on something, it makes it easier to talk about.  There is no effective
> enforcement
> mechanism, to be sure that the labels are accurate.
>
> I refer to these early "members" as a collection of  individuals, as
> they were and
> remain original thinkers.  The word "anarchist" comes immediately to
> mind - that is
> to say, not a group.  This is uncomfortable for many.
>
> In the years I have been associated with The Robot Group Inc., and
> before the Inc.
> I have observed that there are a limited number of people that have
> ideas and
> want to build things.  The next collection of people are those that  
> are
> happy to help
> build things that others design, and pay for.  The largest  
> category, if
> I am forced to
> attempt to describe them, is the "hangers on" that hang with the group
> when something
> interesting, to them, is going on.  Like havening a camera crew to  
> come
> through the shop
> and create videos, that they sell for big bucks, and the RG folks  
> get to
> sign a document
> that legally lets the video producers do anything they want with the
> footage, and
> the RG only gets a bit of publicity, is an example of such an event.
>
> The group is essentially is a group of volunteers.  Look up  
> descriptions
> of volunteer groups
> in the literature.  The specifics differ but the interaction is
> absolutely nothing new going on.
> Absolutely no mystery to it.
>
> Alex, Bill, Dave, and Brooks always had, and still have, ideas for
> projects.  Edwin
> built a huge pneumatic spider like robot.  Several of us worked out a
> chassis design
> and welded up at least 5 custom chassis, wheel chair powered robots.
>
> Eric, Derek and I helped on the Austin Robot Technology autonomous  
> vehicle
> entered in the DARPA Grand Challenge.
>
> Lots of projects.
>
> There is not concise definition of what a robot is.
> Asimov offered "Computer plus machine" which is concise, but only  
> pushes
> the definition on to the next level - what is a computer and what is a
> machine?
>
> A crowd that attends some event is usually labeled as "the  
> audience".  This
> group is particularly ephemeral, even during the "performance".   
> When one
> or more gets up to pee, the group changes.  Some like music albums
> that are "live" in that it give them the feeling that they are  
> "there".
> Others
> like studio albums - they are interested in the music, not a bunch of
> screaming
> fans.
>
> Much of what The Robot Group means to people is a social gathering  
> to trade
> ideas, bullshit, and stuff your face.  At the old shop, some regularly
> drank beer
> to get into the swing of, social, things.  There is nothing at all  
> wrong
> or right
> about the social aspects of the "group", it is what it is, and what  
> the
> "group"
> is "doing" differs from each persons view point.
>
> What I have observed is very little apparent awareness of the
> interactions of
> the "group" members.  If you want to build some sort of robot, what is
> your model?
> Humans?  Members of The Robot Group"?  Build some robots  that  
> drink beer,
> tells jokes, stuff their intakes with an over abundance of fuel and
> "chat" at ever
> increasing levels of volume, until all are shouting - even those  
> within
> 3 feet of
> each other.  Have the robots move form one impromptu clump of  
> "members",
> to another if some "interesting" word is parsed from the shouting.   
> No need
> to stay in context.  Stay up too late and have to go to work the  
> next day.
> Posting comments to a group email would be trivial.
> Surely these would be simple robots to build - but would you want to?
>
> As I have said, many times, the group is defined by the currently  
> active
> members.
>
> There have always been people that initiated projects, and those that
> helped or
> watched and told you how you could do it better, that their brother
> knows someone
> in that did catering for the CIA, and the military has a better one,
> whatever it is.
> The question for those that are really lost, is "How much does that  
> cost?".
> Get them to define "cost", and broaden their port hole on the  
> universe.
>
> At the shop, we finally decided that you really could not get much  
> done on
> "meeting nights"   The tools
> could be dangerous, noisy, and there were people that assumed you  
> were doing
> performance art, and were there to justify and explain your project to
> them.  It is
> easy to loose body parts when using power tools, and explaining  
> what you
> are doing
> and why.   Some felt the shop was the robot equivalent of a "petting
> zoo" where
> they could paw through the materials and pick up every tool in the
> place, and
> were offended if you asked them to stop.
>
> So if you want to build something, get started on it, others will help
> if you if you ask,
> but you need to be able to explain what is needed, then get some  
> help -
> not just
> explain it over and over to people that showed up because they were
> looking for
> a substitute for watching T.V., drinking beer, and stuffing their  
> face,
> at home.
>
> There are a lot of people in the Austin area that have a lot of
> technical talents.
> Many of them like to use their skills on "things they can't build  
> at work".
> RG gathering is a good place to meet these people.
>
> There are books on AI, and there books on human psychology,  
> sociology, etc.
> Although the specifics of a particular project can differ, the larger
> picture of
> human interaction has been observed by some, and lived by many,  
> since before
> recorded history.  Same song, different verse.  Write your own melody
> and lyrics.
> If you do that with a welding torch and servos, well that's up to you.
>
> Focus on the meaning of "art" and "technology" and you will find there
> is no
> technology without art, and there is no art, devoid of some sort of
> technology.
> To consider them separate, distinct and unrelated implies a  
> fundamental
> lack of
> understanding of either. Clarify these meanings and and pick a  
> direction
> to go.
> Without some focus, the "group" will resemble Wendy's hamburger  
> eaters,
> playing "Pin the tail on the robot".
>
> There are lots of interesting projects, pick one and go for it.  As  
> for
> me, I have
> some projects to get back to. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Glenn
>
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