[Robotgroup] Apple

[Leslie Filip]

Andre,

I said I was going to drop this but now I just can't. What you are  
talking about below has been the subject of flame wars for years and  
the topics have been discussed into the ground countless times. I  
will not take the time to prove you wrong; it is going to be up to  
you to prove you are right. After all, it should be far easier for  
you to prove a positive than for me to prove a negative. My  
unwillingness to give a dissertation should not be misconstrued as  
conceding. I respect the work you have done, and will certainly defer  
to you in your areas of expertise, but not on matters of history such  
as this where neither of us have first or even second hand information.

Again, with respect,
Les




Andre said:

I hardly call making a joke "spreading false" information, if I was  
writing
a serious blog that millions read, that was be a "slightly" different  
story
(and I would make citations, etc.), but its my opinion and humor is a  
tool
used to shed light on truths in many cases by making a "joke" of it.  
Unless
you're one of the founders of apple and were there during all these  
early
moments then you don't know what the truth is. The bottom line is apple
touted all these PARC technologies as if THEY invented them, which  
they did
NOT, period. In the supposed 3 day "access pass" apple got at parc  
and the
remuneration apple paid to parc for them, who knows really. But, the  
main
point is that these technologies were invented by scientists at PARC,  
not
apple, what apple licensed, borrowed, we will never know. But, apple
definitely acted as if they invented it. Also, xerox filed a copyright
infringement suit agasint APPLE, yes, that's right, for lifting the  
GUI, but
due to the timeframe, no one understood about software copyrights at the
time and it was hard to prosecute and was dropped, the point is xerox  
and
apple's relationship and exaclty what xerox said "sure take, we don't  
care"
is nebulous as best, but considering a lawsuit was filed against  
apple after
apple released the lisa/mac (I can't remember which exactly), seems  
xerox
didn't exactly "license" or give all this stuff  away to apple.

Moreover, considering the number of pending copyright and patent
infringements apple is currently in, not to mention the number of out of
courst settlements, apple surely isn't above borrowing technology or
stealing it directly, the court records show this. The lisa and mac  
were a
direct result of visiting PARC, that was a result of research done by  
years
by PARC, and SRI, additionally Engelbarts original work, the point is  
that
NO ONE new about this, and still don't. These people that did the  
research,
made the breakthrus, had their work given away more or less and the  
xerox
Star and alto, and other early computers with advanced windowing and
networking that inspired the lisa, mac, and windows of course got no
credit -- that definitely sucks.

In closing, making a harmless joke 30 years old is hardly "spreading  
false"
information to a handful of robotgroup members which I am sure have  
their
own opinion as well. Maybe this discussion will cause them to google
information, read a book, and decide for themselves, maybe it will
re-enforce there love or hate for apple, maybe it will make them click
delete. But, if they didn't know about the Star, Alto, the xerox lawsuit
against apple, now they do, and that's a good thing!

I call questioning reality, and that's how we learn. Prove me wrong  
if you
dare! ;)

And that's all I have to say about that.

Andre'




and that's your opinion that the information was licensed, I have  
another
one.