[Robotgroup] Apple

[David Nunez]

"The world is flat!  The Ozone is a No-Zone!  The State Capital
building dome is actually a giant jiffy-pop container!  Sasquatch is
in the whitehouse and history and all my vast knowledge and
friends-of-friends-of-friends show this! Prove me right or wrong!  Or
else your silence speaks volumes and your inaction will forever taint
your legacy!!! muahahahah"

"But... but...  we just wanted to build robots, " a small voice
concedes from a quiet corner that has become its refuge.

grumble grumble.  Is it the weekend yet?

Oh.  and don't respond to this because I will INSIST on having the last word.

On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Andre Lamothe <ceo at nurve.net> wrote:
> Fair enough :) But, I have had at conversations with woz about this, he is a
>  very good friend, plus one of my friends is an apple historian, and
>  researches this exact stuff, and we have had very in depth conversations. So
>  I would say that I have very good 1st hand (woz) and 2nd hand (researcher),
>  information on this. But, I completely agree, it will always be a mystery
>  and without a time machine, there is no way to know for sure. Plus, who
>  cares! We aren't getting paid either way.
>
>  Andre'
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Leslie Filip" <lfilip at mac.com>
>  To: "The Robot Group Mailing List" <robotgroup at puremagic.com>
>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:48 PM
>  Subject: [Robotgroup] Apple
>
>
>  Andre,
>
>  I said I was going to drop this but now I just can't. What you are
>  talking about below has been the subject of flame wars for years and
>  the topics have been discussed into the ground countless times. I
>  will not take the time to prove you wrong; it is going to be up to
>  you to prove you are right. After all, it should be far easier for
>  you to prove a positive than for me to prove a negative. My
>  unwillingness to give a dissertation should not be misconstrued as
>  conceding. I respect the work you have done, and will certainly defer
>  to you in your areas of expertise, but not on matters of history such
>  as this where neither of us have first or even second hand information.
>
>  Again, with respect,
>  Les
>
>
>
>
>  Andre said:
>
>  I hardly call making a joke "spreading false" information, if I was
>  writing
>  a serious blog that millions read, that was be a "slightly" different
>  story
>  (and I would make citations, etc.), but its my opinion and humor is a
>  tool
>  used to shed light on truths in many cases by making a "joke" of it.
>  Unless
>  you're one of the founders of apple and were there during all these
>  early
>  moments then you don't know what the truth is. The bottom line is apple
>  touted all these PARC technologies as if THEY invented them, which
>  they did
>  NOT, period. In the supposed 3 day "access pass" apple got at parc
>  and the
>  remuneration apple paid to parc for them, who knows really. But, the
>  main
>  point is that these technologies were invented by scientists at PARC,
>  not
>  apple, what apple licensed, borrowed, we will never know. But, apple
>  definitely acted as if they invented it. Also, xerox filed a copyright
>  infringement suit agasint APPLE, yes, that's right, for lifting the
>  GUI, but
>  due to the timeframe, no one understood about software copyrights at the
>  time and it was hard to prosecute and was dropped, the point is xerox
>  and
>  apple's relationship and exaclty what xerox said "sure take, we don't
>  care"
>  is nebulous as best, but considering a lawsuit was filed against
>  apple after
>  apple released the lisa/mac (I can't remember which exactly), seems
>  xerox
>  didn't exactly "license" or give all this stuff  away to apple.
>
>  Moreover, considering the number of pending copyright and patent
>  infringements apple is currently in, not to mention the number of out of
>  courst settlements, apple surely isn't above borrowing technology or
>  stealing it directly, the court records show this. The lisa and mac
>  were a
>  direct result of visiting PARC, that was a result of research done by
>  years
>  by PARC, and SRI, additionally Engelbarts original work, the point is
>  that
>  NO ONE new about this, and still don't. These people that did the
>  research,
>  made the breakthrus, had their work given away more or less and the
>  xerox
>  Star and alto, and other early computers with advanced windowing and
>  networking that inspired the lisa, mac, and windows of course got no
>  credit -- that definitely sucks.
>
>  In closing, making a harmless joke 30 years old is hardly "spreading
>  false"
>  information to a handful of robotgroup members which I am sure have
>  their
>  own opinion as well. Maybe this discussion will cause them to google
>  information, read a book, and decide for themselves, maybe it will
>  re-enforce there love or hate for apple, maybe it will make them click
>  delete. But, if they didn't know about the Star, Alto, the xerox lawsuit
>  against apple, now they do, and that's a good thing!
>
>  I call questioning reality, and that's how we learn. Prove me wrong
>  if you
>  dare! ;)
>
>  And that's all I have to say about that.
>
>  Andre'
>
>
>
>
>  and that's your opinion that the information was licensed, I have
>  another
>  one.
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