[Robotgroup] Apple

[Andre Lamothe]

Real nerds count from 0! 

Andre'

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Leslie Filip" <lfilip at mac.com>
To: "The Robot Group Mailing List" <robotgroup at puremagic.com>
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Robotgroup] Apple


For the record, first hand would be you being there and second hand  
would be hearing it from Woz :)

Also, I do have a time machine, or at least I will in the future,  
when I will send it back to myself before I made it. Then we'll get  
to the bottom of it.

Les


On 18 Apr 2008, at 3:18 PM, Andre Lamothe wrote:

> Fair enough :) But, I have had at conversations with woz about  
> this, he is a
> very good friend, plus one of my friends is an apple historian, and
> researches this exact stuff, and we have had very in depth  
> conversations. So
> I would say that I have very good 1st hand (woz) and 2nd hand  
> (researcher),
> information on this. But, I completely agree, it will always be a  
> mystery
> and without a time machine, there is no way to know for sure. Plus,  
> who
> cares! We aren't getting paid either way.
>
> Andre'
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leslie Filip" <lfilip at mac.com>
> To: "The Robot Group Mailing List" <robotgroup at puremagic.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:48 PM
> Subject: [Robotgroup] Apple
>
>
> Andre,
>
> I said I was going to drop this but now I just can't. What you are
> talking about below has been the subject of flame wars for years and
> the topics have been discussed into the ground countless times. I
> will not take the time to prove you wrong; it is going to be up to
> you to prove you are right. After all, it should be far easier for
> you to prove a positive than for me to prove a negative. My
> unwillingness to give a dissertation should not be misconstrued as
> conceding. I respect the work you have done, and will certainly defer
> to you in your areas of expertise, but not on matters of history such
> as this where neither of us have first or even second hand  
> information.
>
> Again, with respect,
> Les
>
>
>
>
> Andre said:
>
> I hardly call making a joke "spreading false" information, if I was
> writing
> a serious blog that millions read, that was be a "slightly" different
> story
> (and I would make citations, etc.), but its my opinion and humor is a
> tool
> used to shed light on truths in many cases by making a "joke" of it.
> Unless
> you're one of the founders of apple and were there during all these
> early
> moments then you don't know what the truth is. The bottom line is  
> apple
> touted all these PARC technologies as if THEY invented them, which
> they did
> NOT, period. In the supposed 3 day "access pass" apple got at parc
> and the
> remuneration apple paid to parc for them, who knows really. But, the
> main
> point is that these technologies were invented by scientists at PARC,
> not
> apple, what apple licensed, borrowed, we will never know. But, apple
> definitely acted as if they invented it. Also, xerox filed a copyright
> infringement suit agasint APPLE, yes, that's right, for lifting the
> GUI, but
> due to the timeframe, no one understood about software copyrights  
> at the
> time and it was hard to prosecute and was dropped, the point is xerox
> and
> apple's relationship and exaclty what xerox said "sure take, we don't
> care"
> is nebulous as best, but considering a lawsuit was filed against
> apple after
> apple released the lisa/mac (I can't remember which exactly), seems
> xerox
> didn't exactly "license" or give all this stuff  away to apple.
>
> Moreover, considering the number of pending copyright and patent
> infringements apple is currently in, not to mention the number of  
> out of
> courst settlements, apple surely isn't above borrowing technology or
> stealing it directly, the court records show this. The lisa and mac
> were a
> direct result of visiting PARC, that was a result of research done by
> years
> by PARC, and SRI, additionally Engelbarts original work, the point is
> that
> NO ONE new about this, and still don't. These people that did the
> research,
> made the breakthrus, had their work given away more or less and the
> xerox
> Star and alto, and other early computers with advanced windowing and
> networking that inspired the lisa, mac, and windows of course got no
> credit -- that definitely sucks.
>
> In closing, making a harmless joke 30 years old is hardly "spreading
> false"
> information to a handful of robotgroup members which I am sure have
> their
> own opinion as well. Maybe this discussion will cause them to google
> information, read a book, and decide for themselves, maybe it will
> re-enforce there love or hate for apple, maybe it will make them click
> delete. But, if they didn't know about the Star, Alto, the xerox  
> lawsuit
> against apple, now they do, and that's a good thing!
>
> I call questioning reality, and that's how we learn. Prove me wrong
> if you
> dare! ;)
>
> And that's all I have to say about that.
>
> Andre'
>
>
>
>
> and that's your opinion that the information was licensed, I have
> another
> one.
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