[Robotgroup] Apple

Fri Apr 18 14:06:37 PDT 2008

If David Santos were still part of this group I would never be able to check my e-mail again. #1 he thinks TRG is much like the apple/ms deal and #2 he would also insist on haveing the last word. Also the world is slightly egg shaped so there...Bla Bla Bla. other wise I agree totaly with DN's comments....I have eaten some of that popcorn under the dome, quite tasty. David..?
-brooks

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Nunez <david at davidnunez.com>
>Sent: Apr 18, 2008 4:23 PM
>To: The Robot Group Mailing List <robotgroup at puremagic.com>
>Subject: Re: [Robotgroup] Apple
>
>"The world is flat!  The Ozone is a No-Zone!  The State Capital
>building dome is actually a giant jiffy-pop container!  Sasquatch is
>in the whitehouse and history and all my vast knowledge and
>friends-of-friends-of-friends show this! Prove me right or wrong!  Or
>else your silence speaks volumes and your inaction will forever taint
>your legacy!!! muahahahah"
>
>"But... but...  we just wanted to build robots, " a small voice
>concedes from a quiet corner that has become its refuge.
>
>grumble grumble.  Is it the weekend yet?
>
>Oh.  and don't respond to this because I will INSIST on having the last word.
>
>On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 3:18 PM, Andre Lamothe <ceo at nurve.net> wrote:
>> Fair enough :) But, I have had at conversations with woz about this, he is a
>>  very good friend, plus one of my friends is an apple historian, and
>>  researches this exact stuff, and we have had very in depth conversations. So
>>  I would say that I have very good 1st hand (woz) and 2nd hand (researcher),
>>  information on this. But, I completely agree, it will always be a mystery
>>  and without a time machine, there is no way to know for sure. Plus, who
>>  cares! We aren't getting paid either way.
>>
>>  Andre'
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Leslie Filip" <lfilip at mac.com>
>>  To: "The Robot Group Mailing List" <robotgroup at puremagic.com>
>>  Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 2:48 PM
>>  Subject: [Robotgroup] Apple
>>
>>
>>  Andre,
>>
>>  I said I was going to drop this but now I just can't. What you are
>>  talking about below has been the subject of flame wars for years and
>>  the topics have been discussed into the ground countless times. I
>>  will not take the time to prove you wrong; it is going to be up to
>>  you to prove you are right. After all, it should be far easier for
>>  you to prove a positive than for me to prove a negative. My
>>  unwillingness to give a dissertation should not be misconstrued as
>>  conceding. I respect the work you have done, and will certainly defer
>>  to you in your areas of expertise, but not on matters of history such
>>  as this where neither of us have first or even second hand information.
>>
>>  Again, with respect,
>>  Les
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Andre said:
>>
>>  I hardly call making a joke "spreading false" information, if I was
>>  writing
>>  a serious blog that millions read, that was be a "slightly" different
>>  story
>>  (and I would make citations, etc.), but its my opinion and humor is a
>>  tool
>>  used to shed light on truths in many cases by making a "joke" of it.
>>  Unless
>>  you're one of the founders of apple and were there during all these
>>  early
>>  moments then you don't know what the truth is. The bottom line is apple
>>  touted all these PARC technologies as if THEY invented them, which
>>  they did
>>  NOT, period. In the supposed 3 day "access pass" apple got at parc
>>  and the
>>  remuneration apple paid to parc for them, who knows really. But, the
>>  main
>>  point is that these technologies were invented by scientists at PARC,
>>  not
>>  apple, what apple licensed, borrowed, we will never know. But, apple
>>  definitely acted as if they invented it. Also, xerox filed a copyright
>>  infringement suit agasint APPLE, yes, that's right, for lifting the
>>  GUI, but
>>  due to the timeframe, no one understood about software copyrights at the
>>  time and it was hard to prosecute and was dropped, the point is xerox
>>  and
>>  apple's relationship and exaclty what xerox said "sure take, we don't
>>  care"
>>  is nebulous as best, but considering a lawsuit was filed against
>>  apple after
>>  apple released the lisa/mac (I can't remember which exactly), seems
>>  xerox
>>  didn't exactly "license" or give all this stuff  away to apple.
>>
>>  Moreover, considering the number of pending copyright and patent
>>  infringements apple is currently in, not to mention the number of out of
>>  courst settlements, apple surely isn't above borrowing technology or
>>  stealing it directly, the court records show this. The lisa and mac
>>  were a
>>  direct result of visiting PARC, that was a result of research done by
>>  years
>>  by PARC, and SRI, additionally Engelbarts original work, the point is
>>  that
>>  NO ONE new about this, and still don't. These people that did the
>>  research,
>>  made the breakthrus, had their work given away more or less and the
>>  xerox
>>  Star and alto, and other early computers with advanced windowing and
>>  networking that inspired the lisa, mac, and windows of course got no
>>  credit -- that definitely sucks.
>>
>>  In closing, making a harmless joke 30 years old is hardly "spreading
>>  false"
>>  information to a handful of robotgroup members which I am sure have
>>  their
>>  own opinion as well. Maybe this discussion will cause them to google
>>  information, read a book, and decide for themselves, maybe it will
>>  re-enforce there love or hate for apple, maybe it will make them click
>>  delete. But, if they didn't know about the Star, Alto, the xerox lawsuit
>>  against apple, now they do, and that's a good thing!
>>
>>  I call questioning reality, and that's how we learn. Prove me wrong
>>  if you
>>  dare! ;)
>>
>>  And that's all I have to say about that.
>>
>>  Andre'
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  and that's your opinion that the information was licensed, I have
>>  another
>>  one.
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