***** D method override mechanisms borked ******

[Carlos Santander]

kris escribió:
> Carlos Santander wrote:
>> John Reimer escribió:
>>> Kris actually voiced some of the feelings I've been experiencing 
>>> about Bruno's posts.  It's hard to articulate that kind of "feeling." 
>>> But for the most part, I feel he's accurate in his complaint 
>>> (although he sounds a little exasperated).
>>>
>>> Bruno does come across extremely confident, and while "ego" is a 
>>> strong word,  Bruno has given us very little indication that his 
>>> posts are an expression of anything other than that.  So that leaves 
>>> us thinking one of two things: either he really knows what he's 
>>> talking about and likes bombarding the community with statements of 
>>> absolute truth, despite the fact that nobody really knows why he 
>>> thinks he knows (like maybe many long years of research, experience, 
>>> and study?) ; or he's a 21 year old college kid who is quite bright, 
>>> but has a penchant for talking about what's right and wrong about 
>>> everything as if his is the final word on the matter.
>>>
>>> Either way, there's no common courtesy or deference to the experience 
>>> of  others, many of whom may have a whole lot more years behind them 
>>> in the computer industry. There's no gentle discussion. There's just 
>>> strident confidence about how things are with little justification 
>>> for it or evidence as to why. This world is full of gray areas and 
>>> full of systems that try to make an organized approach to 
>>> understanding and working in them, but that doesn't make any one 
>>> system perfect.  As time goes on, we find that out.
>>>
>>> Regan, It's less about his being a student, which as you say really 
>>> makes no difference, and more about how he voices his opinions with 
>>> very little reason for us to know why his word should be law on 
>>> matters.  The student thing comes up because that's about the only 
>>> portrait Bruno has bothered to paint for us (his signature).  And I'm 
>>> afraid that portrait is rather lacking in any substance.
>>>
>>> Regan, you've been in the same spot as Bruno, I think, and perhaps 
>>> empathize with him a little, especially in relation to dealing with 
>>> Kris :).  But you've doggedly persisted through, developed D code, 
>>> contributed to the community in significant ways and thus earned that 
>>> amount of respect you now deserve.  But there were times when people 
>>> were annoyed with your innate ability to start long-winded debates on 
>>> things. Some of your opinions came across the same way.
>>>
>>> When youth speak with so such confidence, it tends to come across as 
>>> abrasive, annoying, and egotistical, no matter what the original 
>>> intention may be.
>>>
>>> I'm giving Bruno the benefit of the doubt.  He probably just enjoys 
>>> D, this community, and the language related discussions so much, that 
>>> he has trouble holding back.  That's nice... but there are 
>>> consequences to any action lacking self-control. :)
>>>
>>> -JJR
>>
>>
>> I think Kris overreacted. Maybe he was right, but I don't think that 
>> was the right way to express it. Experience is a very valuable thing, 
>> granted, but maybe Bruno has experience and he just hasn't made it 
>> public. But whether that's the case or not, I agree with Regan in that 
>> it shouldn't matter that much. 
> 
> 
> You're right, Carlos; it does not matter that much. My point was simply 
> that Bruno's long-standing behaviour of "correcting" every little 
> detail, and his particular approach to doing so, is often out of step 
> with his reality. That does *not* mean the information he passes along 
> is wrong; nor does it mean it is right. Most things in the world can be 
> considered right or wrong, given different circumstances.
> 
> You can visit Bruno's website where he talks about himself: the url is 
> attached to each of his posts. You'll discover one 22 year old CS student.
> 
> My prior comment was not to suggest students are somehow unknowlegable 
> -- not in the least -- those lucky people tend to have a lot of time to 
> peruse the literature and learn. At least, it was the task given to me 
> at that time. And who knows; maybe Bruno is a true genius. Instead, as 
> has been pointed out, these persistent "corrections" are often couched 
> in less than favourable terms.
> 
> To put this into perspective: let's suppose for a moment that you, 
> Carlos, had spent significant effort designing and writing for the 
> benefit of the community. Let's also suppose that the language spec 
> silently changed and "broke" your designs somewhat. Finally, let's 
> suppose you post a report about those things which are broken, and then 
> this guy Kris comes along and says something like the following:
> 
> "Pah! How stupid to follow the spec, or even the long-term language 
> behaviour when, as I will tell you, *I* know how it should have been 
> done in the first place. You see, you can thank only yourself for your 
> broken design"
> 
> Well, gee - what a complete arsehole. Doesn't matter whether I'm an 
> arrogant student, an arrogant professor, or an arrogant policeman. Thus, 
> the student comment should be taken within context. Certainly was not 
> meant as an offence to students.
> 
> Of course, there will probably be those who suspect I am just sensitive 
> to any kind of criticism. All I can say is, if that were an issue, I 
> would hardly be publishing code. It's a bit of a shame more people don't 
> do that.
> 
> What get's my goat is this ~ and it's something to think about ~ there's 
> a world of difference between genuinely trying to impart knowledge, and 
> simply wielding it like a hefty club
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

This is to both your and John's replies, let's just leave it there. Both of you 
made good points but it doesn't help anyone to keep this going.

-- 
Carlos Santander Bernal