[OT] the uses of computing

[ketmar via Digitalmars-d-learn]

On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 19:42:50 +0000
Joakim via Digitalmars-d-learn <digitalmars-d-learn at puremagic.com>
wrote:

> > most people are stupid.
> No disagreement there, but even the smart ones can only learn so 
> much.
that's why we should teach kids alot of things while their minds are
"clear" and ready to absorb alot of knowledge. and, of course, we must
teach them how to *use* that knowledge.

> Many people do not learn simple physics in school, and even if 
> they did, wouldn't necessarily be able to figure out how to fix a 
> specific mechanical system like a washing machine from the 
> general physical principles.
yes, figuring this out without manuals will be hard. but learning
physics (proper learning of *anything* for that matter) will give 'em
understanding of base principles (mechanics, electricity, etc) and the
ability to extract information from books. it's enough for simple fixes
that doesn't require to produce hi-tech parts.

> Yeah, we agree if you truly mean making most of what they learn 
> optional, not just "fun" but still required.  Most of the stuff 
> we force on kids today, like multiplication tables, how to divide 
> numbers by hand, or memorizing historical dates, is utterly 
> useless.
ah, i hated that so-called "history lessons" where i was forced to
remebmer that in year i don't care about somebody who i don't care
about did something i equally don't care about. ;-)

yes, i'm sure that we should teach kids how to do things, not just
making 'em remember that 4*8 is 32. tell 'em what multiplication is and
then play games with them, games which involves using of
multiplication. this way kids will learn how to use multiplication. no
need to remember any tables.

or let 'em build a simple robot and program it to do some funny things.
it's exciting and they will learn many things about mechanics,
electricity, programming...

let 'em play a role of factory manager, for example, and they will
develop a good understanding of how economics works.

and so on.

> >> Yet, civilization is made up of people like you, who would all 
> >> miss those mechanical systems far more than computers.
> > it's a huge difference between "i miss my washing machine" and 
> > "all our
> > communication and data processing systems are foobared".
> Yet, I bet you they'll want that washing machine working far more 
> than the internet.
most people can't see a whole picture. it's bad. we must teach kids to
understand how different things are interconnected too.

> Isn't that what people use Excel macros for?
aren't writing excel macros a programming?

> There are 
> specialized tools for the job, that are more limited than full 
> programming languages but easier to use for the average person.
i never meant that all people should learn "full programming
languages". they have to know how to write algorithms, but not
necessary what "pointer" is or what is the difference between manual
memory management and garbage collecting. yet if i'll show 'em simple
recursive fibonacci function, they must be able to understand it. hey,
it's lambda calculus, and lambda calculus is so simple, that even
7-year kid can understand it! i checked that, kids are really able to
understand it. ;-)

> All of the above, anything you'd use a portable computer for that 
> doesn't require much typing and would benefit from a larger 
> screen than your smartphone.
instagram and social networks. ;-) two of the most useless things on
the planet.

> And you're not limited to the junk on the 
> idiot box, you can download any video from the web and watch on 
> the go.
and can't easily mark and categorize that until someone wrote
"web-service" for it. 'cause for doing it locally i need... ah, to
write some scripts. and i have no keyboard (no, that on-screen crap may
be good for tweeting, but it's generally unusable). i.e. tablets *are*
idiot boxes, just with fancy pictures from over the world.

> I don't read books anymore
even technical ones? ;-)

> but with 
> their high-res displays up to 200-300 ppi these days, reading 
> text is very nice on tablets too.
i prefer to use some specialised device to reading text. it's smaller,
it was made especially for reading texts and it can last alot longer
without recharging.

i mean that tablets can do all that things, but specialised devices are
just better. and if i know that i'll have to spend some time waithing
for something, i'll take my player and "ebook" with me. or subnotebook
-- hey, it has real keyboard!

> > tablets are like XML: bad for everything.
> Now that's just low, you can't compare anything to the utter junk 
> that is XML. :)
ah, you are right. tablets sometimes can be useful. ;-)

> Actually, the progression went the other way, people dropped text 
> UIs for graphical UIs. :)
that's 'cause they never used good UIs and we have no truly component
environments. Oberon system was great even with it's TUI, and it was
really exciting with it's gadgets UI. i'm still missing my Oberon
system.

by the way, if D will develop good runtime reflection (which is
required for precise and moving GCs anyway), we can resurrect Oberon
gadgets with it.
fast compiler + runtime reflection + dynamic modules == excellent
component system.

> I'm not saying _you_ need to leave the 
> terminal, but for most people GUI tools like Automator are enough.
terminal is not the best thing too. ;-) and i have nothing against
automator-like tools when they allow flexible scripting when user needs
it. but anyway such tools just trying to achieve what component system
has out of the box. ;-)

there is no such thing as "application" in true component system (nor
even a "file" for that matter). user can combine and glue components in
any way he wants, building anything he wants.

e-mail reader? ok, create new document, drop treeview component into
it, drop html viewer into it, drop "e-mail data source" into it,
connect 'em and voila! you have a simple working e-mail reader!

want some filtering? drop proxy data source into document, connect it
to e-mail data source, reconnect tree view to proxy, write some filters
and... voila, you have e-mail reader with filtering.

save this document and voila: you have "e-mail reading application"!

the magic works both ways: take complex e-mail reading application,
replace some components, add another components -- and you have e-mail
reading application which is customized to your tasks.

open two documents -- and you'll have two automatically synchronized
readers.

have you ever seen BlackBox Component Builder? it's written in
Component Pascal, but the basic principles are language-independent.
i'm dreaming about BCB with D as base language...

> I wouldn't be so quick to call it "stupid" as much as learning 
> takes effort and you only have so much time and effort to learn 
> so much stuff.  Better to focus on the stuff that interests you 
> and leave the programming to others, at least for most people.
simple scripting *is* programming! ;-) i'm not talking about "everybody
must know how to write kernel module" here, as i mentioned above. it's
more like writing in general: most people can write, but we still have
professional writers. yet almost anyone can write a page of text
describing what he did last evening. this will not be a bestseller ;-),
of couse, but there's no need to hire a professional writer for such
task.
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