LLVM 3.0 type system changes

[Daniel Gibson]

Am 10.03.2011 02:02, schrieb Caligo:
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:54 AM, spir <denis.spir at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/08/2011 03:33 PM, Caligo wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 12:29 AM, Bernard Helyer<b.helyer at gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Tue, 08 Mar 2011 00:15:54 -0600, Caligo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:34 PM, Bernard Helyer<b.helyer at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Mon, 07 Mar 2011 20:41:39 -0600, Caligo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do we really need another D compiler that doesn't work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Name me a working D2 compiler that doesn't have a front-end based based
>>>>>> on DMD. Furthermore, name me an in progress independent implementation
>>>>>> further along than SDC. The only candidate is Dil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SDC _will_ be finished, mark my words.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>  Some one who remembers why they don't use the NG that much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I know about dil, but I wonder why you chose not to contribute to
>>>>> dil instead of starting a new project.  AFAIK dil is D1.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know about Dil. aziz is great, the project is great. However, I know
>>>> and want to use D2/Phobos. Plus, if I'm going to spend years on a
>>>> project, I may as well use stuff I like. Furthermore, SDC didn't start
>>>> out as a full compiler. Just playing around with lexing/parsing D. NIH
>>>> syndrome, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I was aware of your "NIH syndrome", and that's why I have a problem with
>>> this.  The main reason you are doing this is to serve your own needs, to
>>> make yourself feel good, to earn some kind of recognition, but not to
>>> serve
>>> the community in any meaningful way.  Even if the project fails, it will
>>> look good on your resume because you took the time to develop a compiler.
>>> This kind of behavior is very common in the FOSS community, and it has
>>> become a disease.  It's the reason why there are thousands of dead
>>> software
>>> projects that were never completed and maintained.
>>>
>>> I spoke with Aziz two years ago, and he had the same exact attitude.  His
>>> excuse? He hates C++ and he thinks Walter's front end is horrible.  So
>>> instead of contributing to ldc, he continued to work on his own compiler.
>>> After years of hard work, I doubt many would be willing to call dil a
>>> success.  Instead of wasting all his time and energy on dil, Aziz could
>>> have
>>> contributed to ldc and ldc would have been in a much better shape today.
>>> And maybe, just maybe, today we would have a production quality free and
>>> open source D compiler that just works.  Good luck trying to compile dil,
>>> ldc, etc, let alone have them compile your D code and produce an
>>> executable
>>> that runs the way it should.
>>>
>>> I just don't understand why people can't work together.  Life is too damn
>>> short.
>>>
>>
>> I for one long for D tools in D. Thank you very much Aziz and Bernard for
>> your efforts in this direction. I consider the initial choice of building a
>> C++ front-end to be a dead-end. Even more since many D programmers precisely
>> come to D out of C++ disgust.
>>
>> What would you, Caligo, recommand as an initiative for D to have tools the
>> D community can easily and happily use *and* contribute to? What would be
>> the ideal direction, process, sequence of actions, in your views? How would
>> you personly engage in this, according to your own moral stances expressed
>> above?
>>
>>
>> Denis
>> --
>> _________________
>> vita es estrany
>> spir.wikidot.com
>>
>>
> 
> I want to see people work together and not branch off and do their own thing
> when there is no good reason for it.  We don't need to keep reinventing the
> wheel, specially when to this day we don't have a viable, production
> quality, free and open source alternative to DMD for D2.  GDC could have
> been ready a long time ago, but it's not because development is moving very
> slow.  So why start a new project and make an announcement about it when you
> could be helping out with GDC?
> 

Why discuss the usefulness of n D compilers when *you* could be helping out with
GDC?