[off-topic] Sony releases PS Vita SDK

[Alex Rønne Petersen]

On 20-04-2012 15:16, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> Actually when I read Singularity papers I keep thinking to myself that D
> could
> be Sing#. In the sense that both share many common features.
>
> Thanks for the xomb link.
>
> --
> Paulo
>
> "Alex Rønne Petersen" wrote in message
> news:jmr1vd$1m25$1 at digitalmars.com...
>
> On 20-04-2012 08:43, Paulo Pinto wrote:
>> Well, C# can also be real systems programming language, see Singularity.
>
> No, this is actually a common misconception.
>
> Singularity does *not* use plain C#. It uses Sing#, which is an
> extension of Spec# adding message-passing, compile-time reflection, and
> safe manual memory management features. Spec# is a version of C# heavily
> based on design-by-contract (I'd argue its DbC is far superior to D's in
> fact).
>
> Plain C# out of the box is not useful for systems-level programming, and
> especially not in a kernel.
>
>> And native code compilers are also available (Bartok, Mono AOT, NGEN).
>>
>> D names itself a system programming language, but I am yet to see any OS
>> coded on it. Without system programming examples, it becomes just another
>> application level language.
>
> https://github.com/xomboverlord/xomb
>
>>
>> On the other hand I confess this is a very hard task, as most of systems
>> programming
>> languages that manage to exist as such (PL/I, Ada, C, C++, Mac Pascal),
>> did so because
>> there was an OS vendor that made use of them.
>>
>> Now that I mention this, does anyone know if D is being used as research
>> language in any operating system department in some university? I
>> remember
>> there were some posts about it long time ago.
>>
>> What I see going for D in terms of language features:
>>
>> - scope
>> - compile time metaprogramming
>> - mixin as a kind of macro mechanism
>> - inline assembler (this one might be a bit debatable)
>> - delegation via subtyping
>> - all available implementations compile straight to native code
>>
>> --
>> Paulo
>>
>>
>> "Nick Sabalausky" wrote in message news:jmpphn$20s9$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>
>> "Paulo Pinto" <pjmlp at progtools.org> wrote in message
>> news:jmpl39$1oa1$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> just wanted to announce that Sony has finally made the new Playstation
>>> Vita SDK available, as we were discussing some months ago.
>>>
>>> http://www.playstation.com/pss/index_e.html
>>>
>>> The gamming industry seems to be slowing moving to C#. Would we still
>>> be able to convince developers to move to D instead?
>>>
>>
>> Yes. I suspect that the movement to C# is somewhat of a compromise due to
>> the fact that C/C++ has been the *only* real systems language usable for
>> most gaming systems. Obviously, something better than C++ is needed, and
>> thanks to the moronic VM/interpreted obsessions from the last decade
>> or so
>> that rendered most new languages impotent, there was no real
>> alternative to
>> C++. So, I suspect, that's why they made the compromise of going with C#.
>>
>> But D is *real* systems language, unlike C#. And frankly, it beats the
>> snot
>> out of C#. I'm not just saying that subjectively as D fan: Five years ago
>> (if not less) I considered C# and D tied as my favorite languages. But
>> the
>> more I used both, the more I got fed up with C#'s dumb limitations and
>> MS's
>> disinterest in addressing them, and the more I liked D.
>>
>> If D can't be made to attract game devs away from C++/C#, then I'll loose
>> what little faith I have left in mainstream games development.
>>
>
>

There's no doubt that D gets very close to being able to replace Sing#. 
The thing is just that Sing# was designed, from day one, to be 
OS-agnostic, i.e. compile to plain machine code, and to only rely on the 
very small HAL in Singularity.

-- 
- Alex