D-

[bcs]

On 02/11/2012 12:58 AM, Paulo Pinto wrote:
> Am 10.02.2012 20:02, schrieb Tim Krimm:
>> We have C and C++
>>
>> How about D- and D?
>>
>> D- would be the have a similar use as today's C compilers.
>>
>> ===========================
>> Why create this language?
>> ===========================
>>
>> Well I would love to have a D compiler that supports microcontrollers.
>> The ones that have say 32 K of RAM and 64K of FLASH.
>> A language that is targeted for embedded and/or low resource
>> environments.
>> It would be nice to have a modern language for low resource environments.
>>
>> A potential way to implement this language is to use the DMD frontend,
>> then flag the unsupported features of D,
>> Next create a backend, like "C front" that outputs C code instead of
>> assembler.
>>
>>
>> ===========================
>> What do I envision with D-,
>> D-- or Dm or what ever you want to call it.
>> ===========================
>>
>> This language would basically be D without the garbage collection.
>> For example there would be structures but no classes.
>> There would be regular arrays but no dynamic arrays.
>> Code that is mostly equivalent to C, but you would still have structures
>> with functions and overloading support,
>> and other features like templates etc.
>>
>> I think you get the idea.
>>
>> What are your thoughts?
>
>
> I don't see the point.
>
> C++ was the last systems programming language without GC getting market
> share. I seriously doubt any new systems programming language without GC
> will ever suceed.
>
> Specially since systems programming in MacOS X and Windows world is

Systems programming in the MacOS X and Windows world isn't real systems 
programming. The closest you get is kernel and driver work but even 
there you have most of an OS to work with. I think the kind of systems 
programming being considered is embedded work and/or things like BIOS work.

> slowly meaning the use of reference counting or GC in the vendor
> supported systems programming languages. Objective-C in MacOS X supports
> GC and Reference Counting (GC). C++ in Windows has the std::*ptr and
> handles in C++/CX. Then there is also C# for systems programming, when
> used in context of Microsoft Research projects like Singularity.
>
> So sum this up. If you need a languague without GC, C and C++ are quite
> good, have lots of tools and excellent compilers available.
>
> Do you need a very simple C like language, but with GC and a few
> improvements, Go might be an option.
>
> Do you need a language with GC, that is C++ done right and quite capable
> for systems programming, pick D.
>
> There is no need to D-.
>
> --
> Paulo