MS extend C++ significantly for Windows8... and Andrei got name drop

[Adam Wilson]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:44:09 -0800, Manu <turkeyman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26 January 2012 00:37, Adam Wilson <flyboynw at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:28:46 -0800, Manu <turkeyman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  On 25 January 2012 23:59, Adam Wilson <flyboynw at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 13:35:38 -0800, Manu <turkeyman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On 25 January 2012 21:47, bls <bizprac at orange.fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On 01/25/2012 07:03 AM, Manu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  This is fairly interesting. MS have extended their C++ compiler
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> significantly for Windows8 with a bunch of non-standard stuff.
>>>>>>> FINALLY implement garbage collection, ref counting, properties,
>>>>>>> delegates, events, generics, etc...
>>>>>>> If other compilers adopt this tech, D loses some advantages.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  But you still have to fight with ifndef ,forward declaration, and  
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>> template syntax against common sense.  Even if you paint shit yellow
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> not necessarily gold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  True, but I think this will mitigate a lot of the motivation  
>>>>>> Windows
>>>>> devs
>>>>> have to seek another language if they're not developing cross  
>>>>> platform
>>>>> apps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, since WinRT requires using these language extensions to  
>>>>> interface
>>>>> with the new windows runtime, you won't be able to write a Windows8  
>>>>> app
>>>>> in
>>>>> D.
>>>>> Interestingly though, D supports almost everything they've added to
>>>>> C++. I
>>>>> wonder if it would be possible to do extern(Windows8) to produce a
>>>>> compatible ABI for linking with MS C++ apps?
>>>>>
>>>>> The most interesting features are 'ref new' and 'gcnew', which makes  
>>>>> me
>>>>> wonder, since Windows8 has an OS garbage collector, would it be at  
>>>>> all
>>>>> possible to have D use the Windows8 GC? I'd prefer this to using D's  
>>>>> own
>>>>> GC
>>>>> if it would be supported, and obviously this would be a requirement  
>>>>> if D
>>>>> was going to interact with WinRT properly.
>>>>> Also, WinRT uses 'ref new' to allocate ref counted (effectively COM  
>>>>> to
>>>>> my
>>>>> understanding) objects. I think I read somewhere that D already has
>>>>> extern(COM) no? I wonder if Windows8 ref type linkage is already
>>>>> technically supported in D?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> There is no Win8GC, it's all ref counted. WinRT is COM with extras  
>>>> and as
>>>> such should be accessible to D. It would need some extra glue code  
>>>> over
>>>> what we have now ... like the IInspectable interface.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Really? So what's 'gcnew' for?
>>>
>>
>> That's for targeting the CLR (.NET) so it doesn't conflict with  
>> new/delete
>> in regular C++. It goes all the way back to the first C++/CLI in Visual
>> Studio 2005.
>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-**us/library/te3ecsc8.aspx<http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/te3ecsc8.aspx>
>
>
> So there is a GC... It just happens to be the .net GC. Is that a problem?
> Obviously it's accessible in C++ code. Can you use it to allocate C++
> objects, or is it exclusively for some sort of interaction with .net?
> If the rest of the platform is using it...

It's exclusively for the .NET Framework and requires the .NET Framework to  
be installed and loaded to run. It's the .NET Runtime, and as such, it  
would be VERY unwise to base anything D on it.

-- 
Adam Wilson
Project Coordinator
The Horizon Project
http://www.thehorizonproject.org/