Lost a new commercial user this week :(

[Gary Willoughby via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 29 December 2014 at 14:45:37 UTC, Dicebot wrote:
> On Friday, 26 December 2014 at 01:11:42 UTC, Manu via 
> Digitalmars-d wrote:
>> Many bug reports and case studies, and often, a persistent 
>> voice for
>> minority issues that don't get enough attention. My time spent 
>> arguing
>> in this forum is substantial, and as annoying as it may seem, 
>> I think
>> if I didn't invest that time, there are things in the past 5-6 
>> years
>> that would have moved in a different direction, and the 
>> language would
>> be less attractive to me and my industry as a result.
>
> Yes, I am doing pretty much the same. Does that mean I should 
> be more friendly to your lobby of your industry/projects if it 
> directly harms my interests? I have been supporting your push 
> for better low-level control because it helps me too, not 
> because I am kind person. Wasting effort of core contributors 
> on a toolchain I will never use is against my interests and 
> makes me naturally hostile about it.
>
>> No, I'm not a compiler dev, and I feel like you're trying to 
>> discredit
>> me because I'm not.
>
> It is exactly what I am trying to do and I am not hiding it.
>
>> I don't want to be a compiler dev. I want to *use* D to make 
>> my life
>> and work easier for my numerous existing projects and 
>> commercial
>> activity.
>
> I wish I could do the same - I have never wanted to read 
> compiler sources or be part of Phobos dev team. But I do 
> recognize it is the only pragmatical way to make things work as 
> per my needs and it is better to act according to how things 
> are, not how things should have been.
>
>> No other language community has ever demanded I contribute to 
>> the
>> compiler to be eligible to have my case considered relevant.
>
> It is not about relevance but about priority. If you are 
> willing to wait for something like 10 years it will surely be 
> addressed at some point. But you demand it being addressed 
> soon, right?
>
> And yes, D is probably least staffed language development 
> project among non-hobby projects.
>
>> If I contributed code to DMD, I know it will become my life, 
>> and that
>> means I'm stepping away from my existing interests and areas of
>> development. I'm not interested in doing that.
>
> Then you will have to wait until someone appears who have same 
> interests as you but IS willing to start contributing.
>
>> Surely you can understand that my desire to *use* D as a tool 
>> is not
>> at odds with my desire to continue to work in the fields that 
>> I prefer
>> to work in?
>
> I am simply telling that D is not ready to be used in your 
> industry if you are adamant about such desire. Sad but true. 
> And by complaining you don't improve situation as a whole but 
> simply force redistribution of already existing set of limited 
> resources.
>
>>> I keep asking you simple question you avoid answering - who 
>>> personally
>>> should work to address your concerns? Those are all legit 
>>> concerns and I
>>> doubt anyone would willingly prefer to keep things as they 
>>> are. But who will
>>> do it if apparently you are the person who needs it most and 
>>> you don't want
>>> to do it?
>>
>> Any of the existing dev's that particularly care about the 
>> long-term
>> success of the language and the health of the ecosystem?
>> Perhaps new dev's will be attracted by making the ecosystem 
>> inclusive
>> of their work and development practice. That tends to be the 
>> way open
>> source works no?
>
> No, not really. Open source is about people working to fulfill 
> their own personal goals and not minding to share resulting 
> code if it doesn't mean much added effort. Only few care about 
> things like long-term success and only tiny minority will be 
> interested in working on ecosystem they don't use.
>
> Motivation you speak about has its place but it is more of a 
> "luxury" contribution that only happens after primary concerns 
> are dealt with. It just happens that if some open-source 
> project is big and mature enough there is a very high chance 
> that your problems are already addressed by someone else. That 
> gives a wrong impression to those who mostly use open-source 
> and rarely contribute.
>
>> I'm glad you work on the compiler, the community needs people 
>> like you
>> more than anyone...
>
> I don't really work on compiler, sorry :)
>
>> although I'm not sure about your attitude. Right
>> now, I'm finding it quite corrosive.
>
> Being all kind and nice is not really in my skill set. I hope I 
> have explained better my dislike for this specific set of 
> complaints despite the fact I usually tend to support your 
> cause.

This is probably the most disgusting, selfish and deluded posts 
i've read on this entire newsgroup.

If D is supposed to supplant C/C++, then the needs of those users 
*must* be met, especially without deriding those very users. Just 
because you work on the D ecosystem does not give you 'carte 
blanche' to tell a user to stop making enquiries into features 
that are promised by D.

The user is the entire goal of D! Forgetting this relegates D to 
obscurity and makes you look like an ass.

> No, not really. Open source is about people working to fulfill 
> their own personal goals and not minding to share resulting 
> code if it doesn't mean much added effort. Only few care about 
> things like long-term success and only tiny minority will be 
> interested in working on ecosystem they don't use.

With that paragraph, you've just dumped on Walter, Andrei's and 
all other open source contributor's efforts for the past n years!