Contradictory justification for status quo

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d]

On Friday, February 27, 2015 01:48:00 Zach the Mystic via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Friday, 27 February 2015 at 01:33:58 UTC, Jonathan M Davis
> wrote:
> > Well, I suspect that each case would have to be examined
> > individually to
> > decide upon the best action, but I think that what it comes
> > down to is the
> > same problem that we have with getting anything done around
> > here - someone
> > has to do it.
>
> This isn't true at all. Things need to be approved first, then
> implemented.

If something is implemented, then there's an actual implementation to
discuss and accept or reject, and sometimes that leads to the problem
getting resolved, whereas just discussing it frequently just results in
discussion rather than anything actually happening. Sure, if a decision
isn't made before something is implemented, then the odds of it getting
rejected are higher, and that can be very frustrating, but sometimes, it's
the only way that anything gets done.

> > With language changes, it's often the same. Someone needs to
> > come up with a
> > reasonable solution and then create a PR for it.  They then
> > have a much
> > stronger position to argue from, and it may get in and settle
> > the issue.
>
> I sometimes feel so bad for Kenji, who has come up with several
> reasonable solutions for longstanding problems, *and* implemented
> them, only to have them be frozen for *years* by indecision at
> the top. I'll never believe your side until this changes. You can
> see exactly how D works by looking at how Kenji spends his time.
> For a while he's only been fixing ICEs and other little bugs
> which he knows for certain will be accepted. I'm not saying any
> of these top level decisions are easy, but I don't believe you
> for a second, at least when it comes to the language itself.
> Phobos may be different.

Yes. Sometimes stuff gets rejected or stuck in limbo, but there's been
plenty that has gotten done because someone like Kenji just decided to do
it. The fact that stuff is stuck in limbdo for years is definitely bad - no
question about it - but so much more wouldn't have been done had no one at
least implemented something and tried to get it into the compiler or the
standard library - especially when you're talking about the compiler.
Language discussions frequently never result in anything, whereas creating a
PR for dmd will sometimes put things in a position where Walter finally
approves it (or rejects it) rather than simply discussing it and getting
nowhere.

- Jonathan M Davis